Warfare & Tactics

I see a lot of ships fit for PVP that have a buffer tank for armor (plates, resists) but no repairer. When you engage another player and you are damaged into armor, how is that typically repaired? Do you have logi to do it? Dock and spend money? Ignore and continue?

Do people actually do this? It would seem you are putting a lot at risk in a hot zone. You'd have to find a "safe" away from where you just fought and sit around repping. You'd also be risking more loss if you were destroyed. And depots are a pretty recent innovation... was docking or logi the main answer before?

If logi is a real thing in PVP, how come I don't see a lot more requests for it? Are there plenty of people supplying logi needs in PVP now? That would surprise me, as most people seem to like shooting, not helping others shoot.

I hardly ever leave low or null; I frequently go to wormholes, too. But I don't do a lot of PVP and don't have anyone to hang out with - so, I don't know much about groups or groups tactics.

It's quite simple, actually: any structured fleet with 10 or more people (sometimes even less) will most likely have logi.


Logi + buffer tank on the other ships is superior by far to local reps, because:

. Logis rep more than local reps, also there's no limit (yet) to the number of logi that can rep a single ship

. Buffer is better to survive the first volley ('alpha') of enemy ships

. Local resist mods and resist links vastly increase the effectiveness of both the buffer and the reps


It's true many people don't like flying logi, but there are always a few (like me) that enjoy it and/or often x up to fly logi so the gang/fleet can quickly get going (FCs usually won't undock without proper logi, because an enemy gang/fleet with logi would win 95% of the engagements).

As it stand now, dropping a mobile depot to refit and repair is still pretty viable and it can allow you to get a lot out of one ship far past just using it to repair damage out take to your armor and structure in a fight. Where people do quite a bit of pvp and are prepared to scan for ships, you'll find that it can be dangerous, and I suspect that it will become a little less viable as t3 destroyers continue to be implemented and fall in price.

Logi is pretty important in pvp. Most gangs over a handful of people will bring a couple of logi along, often even frigate gangs now. In fleets, logi is extraordinarily important, as there is no way for a ship to be able to survive oncoming dps without it. Nowadays, fleets have grown so much in size that even surviving the combined alpha strike of an opposing fleet can be challenging, and has led to the adoption of very heavily tanked ships, even at the expense of other qualities.

Partly because popular DPS ships, like the tengu, can be so tough, the weak point in enemy fleets can be the logi, which places a big demand on logistics. Many of what some people call elite pvp organizations often compose as much as 25 or even 30% or more of their main fleet as logistics in order to survive losses, assuming they're using subcap logi.

I think in the future, logi will be pushed even harder than it is currently. Force recons are getting a buff, and the huginn is going to get quite a bit tougher. The huginn is a strong counter to the tanking style of logi, which depend on their speed and low signature radius to evade enemy fire; the huginn has a bonus to target painter strenghth and web range which negate both of these advantages.

Logi is still powerful though but getting people to ship into it is tough. Some people like playing the 'healer,' though most like being able to get on killmails. I usually multibox during fleets and often multibox DPS and logi, which helps. I think that this takes place more often than most people believe. Personally though, I'd be happy to see CCP give logistics pilots a place on the killmails of the pilot they're currently repping, both as a reward and to help identify who's multiboxing in small gang scenarios, as the job of logi is going to get a little bit harder with the force recon rebalance.

Hey don't forget WH corps :3

Actually in larger engagements capital wise you dont use logis, instead you go for spidertanks.
I even saw a huge prophecy RR-Fleet with 0 logis working in 00 as well, the meta seems to adjust itself a little because logis can be countered a lot easier than they used to be with proteus.
For smallscale 2 Guardians or 2 Basis can be minimum for a brawl, however 3 is recommended and all it takse to kill them is 2 neutlegions... or a single bhaal

This is why I ask, really. I'm exploration and drones mostly, but I've got Logistics IV, certs in remote armor or shield to IV, and can fly T2 with armor or shield tanking. I've done it in missions, but don't ever see any talk of it in PVP.

Nothing better than your faction BS pilot (in his role as bait) yelling 'LOVE ME', with your OH reps landing as his structure drops to a single digit value :3

Not just Logi.
I'm pretty sure cap transfers will send out more than they cost if your cap transfer skill is up to a certain level.

In low-sec and NPC 0.0, dock and repair, not like it is very expensive.
Before mobile depots for rest of 0.0 I usually then flew with buffer + repair or full active.