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Dominix improvement for L4

Author
Stasia Kosakura
Soulbreaking
#1 - 2014-12-25 09:33:22 UTC
Hi guys,

I'm currently flying a Dominix for L4 without too much problem and I have a few questions to optimize. I have 4,7M SP, focused on drone / armor tanking.

1. My actual plan is to switch ASAP to a rattlesnake

- Gallente BS 4
- Shield tanking
- Rattlesnake requirements
-> Switch to rattle as a pure drone boat
- cruise missile to improve my rattle efficiency.

Does it seems good ?

2. I actually use curator/bouncer at long range and switch to garde at short range but I don't know when I need to switch to garde to optimize my dps (ASAP, at garde optimal range, at very short range when better tracking is needed) ? I use EFT but can't see the real DPS applied to NPC with different resists.

Thanks in advance.

[Dominix, Dominix]
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Alumel-Wired Sensor Augmentation
100MN Afterburner II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Federation Navy Garde x5
Republic Fleet Bouncer x5
Imperial Navy Curator x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-12-25 10:10:07 UTC
first port of call would be to get tech 2 sentries.

I would also switch out dcu for reactive hardener, it's great for missions and you should be able to support it with half decent cap skills.

I feel like you shouldnt need 2 repair rigs. Sentry damage rig and 2 cccs are a pretty good combo.

And finally a medium hull rep and armour rep in highs is nice to save your sentries.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-12-25 13:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Get rid of the rigs. Cap stable is over-rated and the LAR II should be fine without the nano pumps.

Consider at least one Scope Rig.

Note that Sentry Damage Rigs have stack penalty with DDAs so no point fitting Sentry Damage Rigs when you have 3 DDA already.

The salvager and tractor beam are pointless when you can just deploy a MTU and salvage drones. +1 on the suggestion for medium remote reppers, though i would go more towards one shield one armor rather than one hull one armor.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#4 - 2014-12-25 16:52:45 UTC
As far as switching to a rattle, wait until you have cruise missile skills already--the rattle is a worse pure drone boat than the domi due to the lack of tracking/range bonuses.

For switching to Gardes, use EFT to know what the optimal on your Gardes is and switch to them around that.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#5 - 2014-12-25 18:51:23 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
first port of call would be to get tech 2 sentries.

I would also switch out dcu for reactive hardener, it's great for missions and you should be able to support it with half decent cap skills.

I feel like you shouldnt need 2 repair rigs. Sentry damage rig and 2 cccs are a pretty good combo.

And finally a medium hull rep and armour rep in highs is nice to save your sentries.


1. This is solid advice. T2 Sentries are great.

2. I prefer the extra EHP of the DCU, but that's because I am in 0.0. A bit more buffer gives time for the cavalry to arrive.

3. The Sentry Damage Rig is a waste.

4. Hull reps are terrible. Just use more remote armor reps if you choose to fit them at all. Better still, go for a shield-gank Dominix and fit some actual guns. DPS is the best tank.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

r0selan
Lostvilla
#6 - 2014-12-26 11:09:29 UTC
Fitting guns and sentries on a domi is a major challenge, even with good skills. The navy domi is better for that (and you still need a lot of sp and some meta 8-9 things to squeeze everything in). Plus she wants a rattle.

As said already, priority is sentry 2, then shield, then cruise 1. Then the rattle become interesting.

Sustainable tank is optional with a mjd and wardens. You just need enough buffer to mjd away.

mid and lows are nice, however, highs i go with 3 Drone Link Augmentor II, 2 small remote armor rep, and a random gun. you are out of range for tractor and salvager anyway.
Stasia Kosakura
Soulbreaking
#7 - 2014-12-29 15:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Stasia Kosakura
Thanks guys.

I removed the DC2 for a DDA 2 and 1 Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I for a drone scope chip. Tank seems OK like that. Damage rigs is not worth it due to stack penalty. I can't use a second drone rig due to CPU limitation.

Fot the high I took 2 small remote armor rep.

For the rattle I'll wait to have sentry 2 / good shield and missile skills.

[Dominix, Dominix]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Alumel-Wired Sensor Augmentation
100MN Afterburner II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Small 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Federation Navy Garde x5
Republic Fleet Bouncer x5
Imperial Navy Curator x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-12-29 19:30:33 UTC
That is very similar to what I've been using, though I run 5 drone link augs and 1 remote rep in the highs, and removed the hardeners for drone link enhancers. I use cap rigs and a mwd for increased mobility. Overall more mobile and longer range with less tank, though I almost never go into armor anyhow.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-12-30 05:08:17 UTC
Stasia Kosakura wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm currently flying a Dominix for L4 without too much problem and I have a few questions to optimize. I have 4,7M SP, focused on drone / armor tanking.

1. My actual plan is to switch ASAP to a rattlesnake

- Gallente BS 4
- Shield tanking
- Rattlesnake requirements
-> Switch to rattle as a pure drone boat
- cruise missile to improve my rattle efficiency.

Does it seems good ?

2. I actually use curator/bouncer at long range and switch to garde at short range but I don't know when I need to switch to garde to optimize my dps (ASAP, at garde optimal range, at very short range when better tracking is needed) ? I use EFT but can't see the real DPS applied to NPC with different resists.

Thanks in advance.

[Dominix, Dominix]
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Alumel-Wired Sensor Augmentation
100MN Afterburner II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Federation Navy Garde x5
Republic Fleet Bouncer x5
Imperial Navy Curator x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


Go to this site http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/mission_view.php?id=5 , it has almost all lvl4 missions with all the ships and resistances. See the resistances of opposing rats. Type those resistance into EFT / PYFA. I find Garde / Ogre / Hammerhead useless in lvl4 missions, other drones work much better because of resistances. No rats have thermal, as lowest resistance.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-12-30 11:22:13 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:

Go to this site http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/mission_view.php?id=5 , it has almost all lvl4 missions with all the ships and resistances. See the resistances of opposing rats. Type those resistance into EFT / PYFA. I find Garde / Ogre / Hammerhead useless in lvl4 missions, other drones work much better because of resistances. No rats have thermal, as lowest resistance.



Sometimes their is more to it than resists.

Garde have the best tracking and their higher overall damage before resists makes up for being the "wrong damage type" in some cases. There are exceptions of course like angels which are ridiculously susceptible to bouncers.

When running range scripted omnis the bonus is mainly in the fall off making boiuncers a good generic choice at long range.

I tend to pack Garde II, Bouncer II and Warrior II (for the speed and tracking).
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-12-30 11:43:00 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:

Go to this site http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/mission_view.php?id=5 , it has almost all lvl4 missions with all the ships and resistances. See the resistances of opposing rats. Type those resistance into EFT / PYFA. I find Garde / Ogre / Hammerhead useless in lvl4 missions, other drones work much better because of resistances. No rats have thermal, as lowest resistance.



Sometimes their is more to it than resists.

Garde have the best tracking and their higher overall damage before resists makes up for being the "wrong damage type" in some cases. There are exceptions of course like angels which are ridiculously susceptible to bouncers.

When running range scripted omnis the bonus is mainly in the fall off making boiuncers a good generic choice at long range.

I tend to pack Garde II, Bouncer II and Warrior II (for the speed and tracking).


Check the resistances stats. Even 10% resistance difference makes Garde / Gecko useless.
Nicky's Tomb
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-12-30 14:39:22 UTC
There is also range. IIRC the sentries have different ranges with Wardens hitting out 50km base range. The garde have like 25km or something. So if fighting Serps with the MJD + DLAs snipe tactics you can instant pop cruisers at 100km with wardens once all the range bonuses stack from the Omni's. The garde struggle with much lower DPS until the rats are closer.

As to this tactic not being mobile... you don't need to be. Like a sniper you make your home at your best range and camp there picking off the enemy 1 by 1. Only frigates gangs on full tilt can make it to you in any kind of time to get under your sentries, but that's why you have defensive lights. If and when larger stuff does start to get a bit close for comfort you ShiftR your drones which instantly return and move off on MWD or if a suitable angle is available, MJD. Then pop your sentries and settle back down with the popcorn to watch the fireworks at 100km.

I have done level 4s in a Domi as discussed in this thread by others without taking a single hit point of shield damage in the whole mission and spent most of my time targeting things to keep up with the sentries which were instant popping cruiser sized rats at over 80km.

And slow to the gate? Why would you be slow to the gate? You just need to time your last MJD back to the gate so by the time you pop the last few rats it's recharged for the next pocket. The recharge time is like 3 minutes, lower with skills.

It does have it's weaknesses. You need to be certain about what you are doing if you need to AFK. These domi's do not have much of a tank and need to be flown actively and flown well. Usually outside everything else's range. Mistakes with the MJD can be costly especially with the high recharge time, but an MWDII fits nicely.

What I am taking away from this thread is that I could probably do better than 3 token rails on the highs. Armor reps for the drones and another DLA might be nice. Then I can drop the repair drones and bring salvage drones.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#13 - 2014-12-30 19:54:40 UTC
Nicky's Tomb wrote:
You just need to time your last MJD back to the gate so by the time you pop the last few rats it's recharged for the next pocket. The recharge time is like 3 minutes, lower with skills.

Skills don't affect the recharge time on the MJD, just the time it takes to spool up.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2014-12-30 20:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Any battleship with MJD can deal with L4s in short order. Here's what I used today:

[Armageddon]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer I
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, range and tracking script in hold
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, range and tracking script in hold
Sensor Booster II, tracking range script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I

Warden II x5
Praetor I x10

Mjolnir Cruise Missile x1369

The reasoning is that when MJD away to the right range (130km) my sentries don't take damage at all, so not going to lose them. Then I just sit still at this position with range scripts loaded until the rats get damage on me (shoot the nearest ship). Then I scoop the sentries and MJD to another location so that I'm 130km away. Then I repeat. If at any point I'm in range of the rats and unable to activate MJD for a while, I scoop sentries, and slowboat away with t1 heavy drones with tracking scripts. Cruises are just there to add a bit of dps on battleships, and you may replace repper and EANM for missile damage mods if you wish.
I just use this because its easy to use. No hardener switching, no large ammo expenses, no tanking, no Ewar problems, frigates are for all intents and purposes standing still. I don't even put rigs on.

To translate this into your domi, remove the tank, add more stuff to support your drone damage. Maybe even drop the AB for another sebo (scan resolution script on that one, locking range on the other) or tracking mod. Salvaging with MWD noctis after you're done is more efficient than some salvaging underways. You can also put large drone control range rigs on and drop out the drone link augmentors so you can have 5 or even 6 long range turrets (no turret bonus on domi so doesn't matter if you use lasers or projectiles or hybrids, just take what fits and what you have the skills to fire, I don't know what would be best for hitting at 130km though). Since you have plenty of low slots you can have damage mods for both drones and the turrets. 4 drone damage mods and 3 turret damage mods. Then MJD, tracking for drones and perhaps one or two tracking computer for turrets so you can boost range.

EDIT: Here's my optimized geddon fit. Copy it for the domi if you wish. With t2 sentries and t2 lasers up to skill level IV and amarr battleship V, and all fitting skills that matter, then it JUST fits with 2 CPU and 100 PG left and it has these stats:
834 dps, turrets have optimal (with aurora) at 118km, sentries at 93km but they have 69km falloff. No tank of course so keep distance with MJD and shoot the closest ship. Between 90-120km you should be doing pretty close to 800 dps. Also, you have the drone range to follow (I have 123km drone control range with this fit).
EDIT2: For reference, a paladin marauder has about 850 dps at this range without its single sentry drone.

[Armageddon]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Ancillary Current Router I

Warden II x5
Praetor I x10

If you have t2 cruise missiles then maybe that would be better since you can choose damage types and not chew up t2 crystals (though these beams take a long time to use a set of t2 crystals).
Kines Pavelovna
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-01-03 02:54:20 UTC
For a Rattlesnake Garde II's first is stupid. Since Federation Navy Gardes have better tracking, identical damage mod, optimal and falloff, you're not getting much of a return for the time spent.

Instead get t2 cruise missiles and support skills up to 4. You'll do more dps in less time that way. In my case, both drone and missile support skills trained to 4, going t2 cruise missiles works out to a 220+dps increase while Garde II's are something like 73+dps increase for essentially identical training times.

Use this fit;

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70136-Rattlesnake-Kronos-Optimal-L4-Missioner.html

It's cheap and not overtanked like everything else PvE out there.

Alternatively

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/71478-Rattlesnake-Rattler-The-best-mission-boat-in-the-game.html

It looks good for gate burns but I'd rather just use a mobile depot and swap out into some cap rechargers and a mwd/AB (Heavy drones/Geko's su-su-suck in lvl 4's imo).
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#16 - 2015-01-05 11:25:09 UTC
Kines Pavelovna wrote:
For a Rattlesnake Garde II's first is stupid. Since Federation Navy Gardes have better tracking, identical damage mod, optimal and falloff, you're not getting much of a return for the time spent.

Instead get t2 cruise missiles and support skills up to 4. You'll do more dps in less time that way. In my case, both drone and missile support skills trained to 4, going t2 cruise missiles works out to a 220+dps increase while Garde II's are something like 73+dps increase for essentially identical training times.

Use this fit;

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70136-Rattlesnake-Kronos-Optimal-L4-Missioner.html

It's cheap and not overtanked like everything else PvE out there.

Alternatively

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/71478-Rattlesnake-Rattler-The-best-mission-boat-in-the-game.html

It looks good for gate burns but I'd rather just use a mobile depot and swap out into some cap rechargers and a mwd/AB (Heavy drones/Geko's su-su-suck in lvl 4's imo).


if you don't have sentry drone interfacing you lose 5% damage modifier and when using tech 2 drones you also get specialization bonuses which are 2% per level.
Kines Pavelovna
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-01-05 17:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kines Pavelovna
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Kines Pavelovna wrote:
...stuff...


if you don't have sentry drone interfacing you lose 5% damage modifier and when using tech 2 drones you also get specialization bonuses which are 2% per level.


I don't know what to tell you. Just do the math. Even though the cruise missile component is 50% of the drone component the rate of growth on the cruise missile dps component, per day of training, dwarfs the rate of growth on the drone component dps. The only real advantage to t2 sentries versus faction war sentries, is the cost.

Assumptions;
BS sized targets
All 5 skills
Reload time is a variable

EFT reports;
t2 launchers and rounds, one does 874 dps.

With pimped launchers, Dread Guristas launchers and rounds, one does 740 missile dps. (The mean price on Dread Guristas Cruise missiles is something like 25k-60k a round...)

For all 5 skills with pimped launchers, Dread Guristas launchers and CN rounds, one does 738.4 missile dps.

So the delta, on moving from t1 to t2, is +134

Shifting to Garde II from Federation Navy Gardes is a delta of 67.6 drone dps

Both Cruise Missile V and Sentry Drone Interfacing V require 226275 skill points, with a time multiplier of 5, i.e. they take the same time to train.

The quotient of the two delta's is 1.9822... so it's roughly twice as effective, per day of training, to get to t2 cruise missiles.

In the most likely scenario, that of moving from Arbalest launchers and basic rounds, the delta is 874-537=337. This implies a dps increase per unit of training time of roughly 5 to 1 in favour of the launchers.

The sole caveat I can cook up is too look at the signature radius and velocity of relevant targets. But you only really shoot battleships with cruise missiles, so you should be doing full damage with rage ammo and skills.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#18 - 2015-01-08 13:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
Thats what works for me just fine:
[Dominix, Expedition combat]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor Thermic Hardener

Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Radio L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Radio L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I

Garde II x5
Warden II x5
medium / light drones according to mission

So you just sit 100 - 140km from targets and apply 600 DPS from wardens cause they are still in their damn optimal range. Your turrets does not eat additional costs for ammo and slowly chew incomming frigates so sentries keep working on big ships. Instant damage, relaxing manner. If you want different gameplay and hardcore combat action - train to Machariel, not Rattlesnake. Cause Rattlesnake will do the same job in a same way as this Dominix but for much more money and a little bit quicker. Armageddon is a good option, but it lacks bonus for drone optimal range and that is the only thing why you use Dominix. Dominix and no other ship. Once you get used to its semi/afk way of running missions, you will never sell it. Just buy Machariel for times, when you want some close combat action.
herb aderp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-01-10 21:31:03 UTC
Dont waste time training towards T2 Sentries. You want to be efficient with your skill choices when you are low SP.

Those that advocate T2 have obviously never used faction sentries, or bothered to look at their stats .... or they have min-maxer tunnel vission. As mentioned, go for T2 Cruise BEFORE T2 Sentries < ---- Good Advice mentioned earlier

You will run into a few issues with the Rattlesnake.

In order to get similar ranges to the Domi you will need ....

Avionics 5
Advanced Avionics 4
T2 Drone Link Augmentor/s
Federation Omni's
Drone Control range Rig/s

Then you will most likely run into some CPU fitting issues which might take some more training or you could just use a CPU rig and/or CPU implant.

It will take you 3-4 weeks of training (was that for me when i switched from the Domi) .... and its TOTALLY worth it. You will go from 500 something DPS in the Domi to 900 something DPS in the Rattlesnake with just T2 Damage mods, and it only goes up from there when you start getting better skills/mods.





Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-01-10 22:01:35 UTC
Faction sentries were buffed in the year that I was out, people probably just haven't been aware of the changes.

For people's information:

Faction sentries now all have the same range and damage modifier as T2
The way they are balanced now is by price and no increase to damage by racial drone specialisations

It does kind of annoy me as i dropped over 3 weeks into sentries but at least i get the advantages mentioned above.