Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So what? I don't agree 100% with the echo chamber and don't accept a hypocritical or dishonest argument so therefore I need to shut up and be censored? I'm honestly trying to have a discourse with you guys to hammer out more than just, 'autocannons are bad mkay' and you guys essentially treat me like an abhorrent monster ripping out your teddy bear's entrails. I can be convinced and I have been convinced that autocannons need a buff, but you wouldn't know that because you don't post here and just assumed that I'm here to enforce a false dichotomy(which is probably just projection on your part).

I also never tell anyone that they need to be censored. I may stop discussing an issue with you, but that's hardly the same.

The fact is, the only evidence I've seen that properly illustrates why autocannons are disadvantaged has only been provided to me by James Baboli. He provided me with hard numbers that showed the autocannon T1 ammunition has little to no point from a DPS perspective to switch from short range ammunition at any range.

So if you're not willing to defend your point then why are you here? That's what the board is for.

Edit: Great, now I don't get to see what that other guy was going to post stifling the discussion. Thanks for the censorship.

I still dont think that you've even read my original post, or my subsequent posts in the 18 previous pages. I'm not going to type them out again for your benefit. Please read the original post. A buff to medium auto cannon falloff would not break the game, it would make some Mini hulls viable solo and small gang ships again. The Rupture and the Hurricane in particular. At the moment both hulls are Armor brawlers with the lowest DPS in their class, a buff to falloff may make the shield kiting fits a viable alternative once again.

I think that could actually solve the problem without actually changing the weapon systems at all. It would also make millions of rounds of now useless ammo useful again. I could stand behind that.

So ill submit that a dread still cannot track a frig with 3 webs and 2 tp's 99% of the time. However saying acs perform fine in a PVE environment with a loki that has 3webs and 2 TPs isnt misrepresentation? How often are people flying stabbers or vagabonds with that loki for support? WH PVE is still PVE. You are fighting AI that is easy to predict as shown by your loki fit. Its special built to handle them so your other fleet members can kill them. The dps from your acs is a bonus. I dont doubt that loki can kill sleeper frigates on its own. Because thats what acs are good at. The lower overall dps mixed with exclusively operating in falloff means your applied dps at range is only enough to kill frigates.

It takes my vagabond 2 TE and one t2 ambit rig to reach 40km with barrage. I sacrificed 3 slots for application and still do frigate level dps at range. Thats not irrelevant, it means the kiting ships in minmatar line-up dont have the application at range to kite against anything other than frigs. I mean, unless you dont intend to kill them and are just holding them for your gang, which is what a majority of the minny kite ships do nowadays. Kinda like crows, but more EHP. More of an annoyance, than a threat.

I talked about your crow. Reading is hard i know. Remember the part where i said acs are good at killing frigs and thats pretty much it?

Im quite happy to attack your anecdotes when you come barging in, foaming at the mouth about your PVE fit loki that kills sleeper frigs. Quoting something from me that was talking about kiting sabres and small acs. Meaning you jumped into the middle of a conversation without reading the details or what has already been discussed.

That would help a bit, or at least give kiters the "selectable damage type", instead of only using barrage. Another option would be to make barrage omni damage. Still kinda iffy on that though, could be hard to counter.

Actually, giving ammo falloff and optimal bonus wouldnt be too bad. Since acs have no optimal, and having more falloff with arty isnt really game breaking. As long as we keep tit sabot with 20% tracking bonus for artillery, im good. Has potential, the only thing im concerned about is all the cargo that amount of ammo is going to take up. Minny ships fit cap boosters too.

You dont take that loki fit out to roam with a vagabond gang. It has no prop and is armor tanked. Even changing it for prop and sheild fit, you still expect me to think acs are ok, but only with loki support?

Also, if its true, good on you for using vagabonds and stabbers in your WH group. When there are other ships that do the same thing, just much better.

Your NPC sleepers arent using links. Going thousands of meters per second, using boosters, or any other multitude of options that are available to players. Transversal and resists will vary from fight to fight. Sleepers are going to be the same everytime. Do 10-50 sleepers appear when you finish a site? No? Its quite common to have your enemy's gang land when youre trying to kill them with anemic dps of acs at falloff.

Since you provided your loki fit and claim its application is good. Refit for pvp with same subsystem for acs and go fight with it solo. Then tell me how great that application is. Show me kills or losses. You're telling me application is fine, im saying its not and have provided examples in this thread. I fly strictly minny ships and speak from experience from a solo perspective. If you can PROVE me otherwise with solo kills (that arent frigs or ratting ships), then i will admit being wrong.

Or use a vagabond/stabber since loki tank is not the norm for kiters. Up to you though, ill try not to let the loki tank obscure my reasoning.

Edit: please tell me your posting on a toon. You dont have a solo kill with an ac ship all year. Its either gal/cal blaster boats or amarr.

No response from the ac is fine crowd? Ive asked baltec a yes/no question with no answer, and gave kaer the option to prove me wrong. Yet, not a word from either. Other than typical smugness without anything relavent to back it up.

Going through kaers killboard though.. i see no crows lost to hurricanes? I see crows lost to arty thrashers, which arty is not ac. Also, every single one of your dead crows is a **** fit with no tank. The only minny ship i see that youve lost is the loki, i cant even find kills you have where you were in a minny ship? All your kills are in gangs too, except when your ganking indys (solo pvp right?).

You can fly damnation, loki, heretic, hyperion, intys and got lots of t2 skills apparently.. odd i dont see vagabonds or stabbers as ships you actually fly. Which you can, because you can fly loki. Hmmm.. makes your arguements pretty paper thin. How bout you fly those ships and then maybe your opinion will have some merit. As it stands your just another person going off ac data from 2012 before they were nerfed.

Because it is metagame lobbying.

Baltec1 came up with the current CFC Baltec Megathron fleet, right? Also, Harpy rails. Current CFC meta fleets (also other entities) runs around hybrids, ofc change or buff to other weapon systems/ship races isn't going to sit well.

Edit: And before anyone point out to my KB, I used to fly exclusively Minmatar until a couple of years ago, and almost none of them since last year. I still own a LOT of Minnie ships. The only ones I still fly from time to time is the Fleet Stabber, Loki or very rarely, Fleet Cane. Frigates too, because I got them and their role is to catch stuff amyway.

So far the only person to post any kind of useage evidence is myself. You say these things are underpowered yet all evidence shows autos are in widespread use on multiple platforms and all of them are on par with every other race out there. You keep on saying I don't answer your question yet if we look back we can see I have repeatedly answered your questions and provided statistical evidence to back myself up. So far you have posted nothing that shows a/c are underpowered or that a/c are not being used.

Show me a null doctrine that uses marauders.

Ships don't have to be used in main fleets to be good, that said we have a SFI fleet.