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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#2841 - 2014-12-26 12:09:45 UTC
Sgt Ocker Your talking about Replicator?
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#2842 - 2014-12-27 09:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
After reading x pages i still don't unterstand why isboxer guys try to protect round robbin From being banned. This function gives you an advantage over a player who has to alt+tab through The clients and The function interacts with The Eve world. Not allowed, Done .
O/

If you are fool enough not to trust my words, do a comparison on your own. Open 10 Clients and then measure The time required to send a F1 to Every client without making mistakes with and without round robbin. No advantage?

Last but not least:
The proof oft my conclusion is: if it wouldn't give you an advantage you would not fight for it. Who cares about a loss which is no loss at all...
wheniaminspace
My Wife's Son
#2843 - 2014-12-27 10:01:04 UTC
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2844 - 2014-12-27 10:01:05 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
After reading x pages i still don't unterstand why isboxer guys try to protect round robbin From being banned. This function gives you an advantage over a player who has to alt+tab through The clients and The function interacts with The Eve world. Not allowed, Done.
Having multiple monitors is also faster than alt tab. So is tiling your windows and sending keypresses to the focussed windows which some operating systems can do.

And nobody needs to "protect" anything, since round robin is not banned.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#2845 - 2014-12-27 10:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Wait for Jan 1st to See if you are right and round robbin is not considerred AS illegal advantage. I heard so many Boxers want to use it to get around The other restrictions that i am sure it will be looked at again. Pressing 10x F1 and leaving the distribution of The key presses to a third Party software is faster and more efficient than doing it manually - clear break oft The New rules.

You are just operating in a grey zone hoping that The rules won't be looked at again if the first hit against this plague doesn't eleminate it.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#2846 - 2014-12-27 10:53:23 UTC
Wait for some more days. If these changes don't result in the expected improvements it will be looked at again. And then it's only about how to Interpret the words "Software interacting with the Eve world giving you advantages over regular players" .

press 10x F1 and leave the distribution to isboxer, do it manually, measure what is More efficient. Then read my last sentence agasin and think about your statement again...

Time will show who is right. some months ago only few would have considerred that CCP would change their mind about isboxer at all and look where we are now. I can wait o/
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2847 - 2014-12-27 11:16:58 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
Wait for some more days. If these changes don't result in the expected improvements it will be looked at again. And then it's only about how to Interpret the words "Software interacting with the Eve world giving you advantages over regular players" .
press 10x F1 and leave the distribution to isboxer, do it manually, measure what is More efficient. Then read my last sentence agasin and think about your statement again...
Time will show who is right. some months ago only few would have considerred that CCP would change their mind about isboxer at all and look where we are now. I can wait o/


Again, all we're asking is for CCP to balance and fix the game before scapegoating us. I will happily wait till Jan1, and I will be the first person in system local to **** myself laughing at all the whiners and QQers in local ranting and raving over the ISBoxer in the belt.

Please learn to read. Lucas and I addressed your concerns regarding the "distribution" issue about three or four pages ago, and, had you read the handy graphic by CCP Random, you would've seen that one action per client is allowed under the new law.

Time will not show who is right, only who has control of the game. Games change as they go on. Few could have predicted the mass exodus and "blue donuting" of WH space, yet here we are. Stop making random statements that have no relevance on what is currently happening.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#2848 - 2014-12-27 11:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
@nolak

Just to consider ...
There is no statement out about round robin except one response of a GM. CCP only mentions to read the rules and everything else is on your own risk. This leaves them any options for interpreting the rules in the future. And why do you trust the words of a GM now while stating "they lied in the Papst, what next?" in your sig?

Bzw. I know who rules the game. It's CCP. You are only hoping that the ban hammer doesn't hit you.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2849 - 2014-12-27 11:56:29 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
Just to consider ...
There is no statement out about round robin except one response of a GM. CCP only mentions to read the rules and everything else is on your own risk. This leaves them any options for interpreting the rules in the future. And why do you trust the words of a GM now while stating "they lied in the Papst, what next?" in your sig?
Bzw. I know who rules the game. It's CCP. You are only hoping that the ban hammer doesn't hit you.


Just to consider, it took one response of a GM to (inadvertently) declare the C6 Magnetar weapon viable. ISBoxers and Lax have always paid strict attention to the rules and the EULA and stayed within the guidelines set out by CCP. We have always agreed with CCP that the ability to go AFK or cease inputting actions and have it continue to perform actions would constitute botting, and Lax has (if I remember correctly) worked to remove the ability to turn ISBoxer into a botting program.
I put that in my signature in an effort to remind them, and the playerbase, that they made a promise/declaration that they are now breaking, and that I was asking them to reconsider this change.

I'm not "hoping" the hammer won't hit me. I've stopped boxing because I'm tired of getting buttfucked by an Avatar, so it'd be quite funny to find myself retroactively banned. But since a GM himself thinks that RR broadcasting would be allowed by the new interpretation, then it's so until CCP comes back from vacation and sits down with the multiboxers.

Until then, enjoy seeing the same miners in the belts! And have a merry XMas.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2850 - 2014-12-27 14:53:43 UTC
Can't wit for Update regarding XXYY and AABB thread #2

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2851 - 2014-12-27 16:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Dustpuppy wrote:
Wait for Jan 1st to See if you are right and round robbin is not considerred AS illegal advantage. I heard so many Boxers want to use it to get around The other restrictions that i am sure it will be looked at again. Pressing 10x F1 and leaving the distribution of The key presses to a third Party software is faster and more efficient than doing it manually - clear break oft The New rules.

You are just operating in a grey zone hoping that The rules won't be looked at again if the first hit against this plague doesn't eleminate it.
It's been talked about enough and raised in enough petitions, that I'm sure if CCP were going to ban it, they would have said so. I don't expect CCP would know full well that people are going to use round robin, then wait for it to be bannable before letting people know. Stop being ridiculous.

And even if they want to ban it, they couldn't without banning manual multiboxers in the precess, since its not something that can be detected.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2852 - 2014-12-27 17:28:17 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJgQO9rjVZ0 Thanks goes to UFO for another video proving ISBoxer isn't a 1-button win program.
Indis Inzilbeth
Miners Inn
Goonswarm Federation
#2853 - 2014-12-27 17:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Indis Inzilbeth
Maxxor Brutor wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:


is there some dark gateway that requires precise coordinated action from several eve clients at once to unlock the portal to mac compatibility that must be opened every day


Yeah mac users need isboxer because they only have one mouse button :(



I alt tab-ed 6 accounts on mac for 3 years and all I have to say is wtf is "isboxer"
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2854 - 2014-12-27 17:53:01 UTC
Indis Inzilbeth wrote:
Maxxor Brutor wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:

is there some dark gateway that requires precise coordinated action from several eve clients at once to unlock the portal to mac compatibility that must be opened every day

Yeah mac users need isboxer because they only have one mouse button :(

I alt tab-ed 6 accounts on mac for 3 years and all I have to say is wtf is "isboxer"


Think he meant for those few using a Mac mouse, though I'm not sure. I do know that there's a lot of "bugs and issues" threads on the forums about Mac and Linux though.
Kaphrah
Thats my BOI
#2855 - 2014-12-27 17:56:36 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
Wait for Jan 1st to See if you are right and round robbin is not considerred AS illegal advantage. I heard so many Boxers want to use it to get around The other restrictions that i am sure it will be looked at again. Pressing 10x F1 and leaving the distribution of The key presses to a third Party software is faster and more efficient than doing it manually - clear break oft The New rules.

You are just operating in a grey zone hoping that The rules won't be looked at again if the first hit against this plague doesn't eleminate it.



so you're telling me if I have a hotkey other than alt tab to set focus to the next window, even completly without ISBoxer and then just spam those 2 buttons like x- F1 - x- F1 - x- F1 etc etc, this would be bannable in your eyes? what do you want to ban next? windows? And I'm sure this method will be fukin fast.
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#2856 - 2014-12-27 18:33:19 UTC
So, regarding the ignorant misuse of the word multiplexing, what is it that is actually being referred to in this case?

Do not run. We are your friends.

ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#2857 - 2014-12-27 18:34:55 UTC
heres a quick video, more proof of concept, showing how isboxer mouseovers can be used to very quickly activate dozens of modules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAk7EMDjvE&feature=youtu.be
Indis Inzilbeth
Miners Inn
Goonswarm Federation
#2858 - 2014-12-27 18:42:40 UTC
I do not see the problem here
multi boxing is not being banned, just the use of software/hardware to over come it's challenges
multi-boxing or multi-clienting (i know, thats probably not a real word) shouldn't be easy,
everything else in this game follows the premise that the more money an activity makes the more challenging it is,
ether by way of higher risk or increased effort or complexity of game play.
why should multi-boxing be any different, the more clients you have the more potential ya have for making isk,
so the more clients ya run the harder it should get.
I'm a mining whore and I simul-run 6 clients on a single 15" laptop with a standard mouse and the laptops keyboard,
thats 4 hulks an Orca and a Charion Freighter, now the reason I run 4 hulks instead of say 8 or 10 is because managing 12 strip miners with A 82 second cycle and keeping an eye on 4 ore holds that only hold 1 whole cycle gives me plenty to do in a activity that is considered slow monotonous and boring. .....(also that gives me 1 hulk per ore type)
so when ya have come to a point where ya are running so many clients that it exceeds yer human capacity to effectively manage then maybe its time to find a player corp that can take some of the workload of yer hands.
to me, using outside software/hardware to over come this limitation by effectively enabling ya to click multiple buttons at once is just plane and simple cheating.


this is just my opinion, take it in the spirit it was offered

Indis


Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2859 - 2014-12-27 22:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolak Ataru
Indis Inzilbeth wrote:
multi boxing is not being banned, just the use of software/hardware to over come it's challenges
multi-boxing or multi-clienting (i know, thats probably not a real word) shouldn't be easy,
everything else in this game follows the premise that the more money an activity makes the more challenging it is,
ether by way of higher risk or increased effort or complexity of game play.
why should multi-boxing be any different, the more clients you have the more potential ya have for making isk,
so the more clients ya run the harder it should get.
I'm a mining ***** and I simul-run 6 clients on a single 15" laptop with a standard mouse and the laptops keyboard,
thats 4 hulks an Orca and a Charon Freighter, now the reason I run 4 hulks instead of say 8 or 10 is because managing 12 strip miners with A 82 second cycle and keeping an eye on 4 ore holds that only hold 1 whole cycle gives me plenty to do in a activity that is considered slow monotonous and boring. .....(also that gives me 1 hulk per ore type)
so when ya have come to a point where ya are running so many clients that it exceeds yer human capacity to effectively manage then maybe its time to find a player corp that can take some of the workload of yer hands.
to me, using outside software/hardware to over come this limitation by effectively enabling ya to click multiple buttons at once is just plane and simple cheating.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. It's been established that multiboxing is not banned (yet). It has also been established (with no counter-evidence or counter-proof) that ISBoxing is anything but "simple" or "easy" so I don't know why you attempt to once again claim it's easy without proof or evidence to back up your claim.
Again, certain people will multibox or run multiple accounts easier than others. My friend runs solo C5 full escalations, and I'm 99% positive I can't do that yet, not without a lot of time training. I'm nowhere near the level that wheniaminspace or Oodell operate at. Hell, I still had trouble commanding 10 even after a year of flying them. I find it very disingenuous when people dare to lump every non-ISBoxer person into one catagory, and then lump every ISBoxer into another. This isn't a black-and-white community. This isn't something you can just "wave away" with a hand and make the baseless and evidence-lacking claim that somehow defending your gamestyle automatically means we're guilty. It's silly and it looks bad.
6 clients on a 15inch laptop? So you either have a powerful 2-core gaming rig, or a average/slightly above average 4-core laptop. Either way, you can arguably gain a marked advantage over another player who's using older stuff by running a single or two accounts and hitting 60 to 90 or even 120 FPS consistently in a small scale engagement, allowing you to react faster to the changes and have the game register your commands in a timely manner and transmit them to the server.
In your last paragraph, please define "effectively" and "human capacity". As stated earlier by others and myself, ISBoxer is not some plug-and-play software that runs itself. Please do some research on something you're going to decry on the forums, as we've heard the usual stuff spouted by Carl Crazycakes in system local and it's tiring at this point.
And finally, you tell us to join player corps, yet you completely missed 2 simple facts: 1) the general population of EVE would love nothing more than to find themselves in a player corporation of an ISBoxer, as awoxxing runs rampant in EVE and is at times encouraged. 2), it is a pain in the ass to transfer funds from 10+ accounts to one every day, so most players simply form a corp with 100% tax and call it a day. Not many are willing to be in a 100% tax corp, so ISBoxers are mostly alone.
edit: And as for your claim that it's simply cheating, how? Why? What part? Please, let us know.
ESN Seeker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2860 - 2014-12-28 00:03:08 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
After reading x pages i still don't unterstand why isboxer guys try to protect round robbin From being banned. This function gives you an advantage over a player who has to alt+tab through The clients and The function interacts with The Eve world. Not allowed, Done .
O/

Don't forget to ban touch-screens, too.