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MMJD / BC / BS Changes & Power Creep
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Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-27 07:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal
Rather than posting a large wall of text that will likely be skimmed, here's the gist

Issues
  • Stop boosting ships for excessive speed, kiting, and damage application. The RLMLs, Orthus, and the new Recons/Destroyers are examples of ships/items crippling all classes beneath their price bracket.
  • BC/BSs are stagnant because they are slow & fat. AWFUL ships for extended roaming.
  • MJD have potential, but currently require gimping your setup to utilize them

    • Solutions
  • Slightly increase BC agility
  • Change the MJD into a script for MWDs. They are still locked to their specific hulls.

    • It doesn't make sense to currently use an MJD because you are totally dead in the water.
    Only a select few can sport both modules without totally compromising their setup, but the module still has little use.

    This should result in far more versatile/mobile BCs / BSs that do not require gimping setups to fit.
    Load script -> MJD mode
    Unload script -> MWD mode


    Alternatively, change the MJD module entirely. Perhaps increase fitting requirements or make them slightly slower than normal MWDs
    Normal mode -> Typical MWD
    Overloaded mode -> Typical MJD


    These are two really simple ideas that would help to rejuvenate the BS & BC hulls.

    Note;
    This would apply to both medium and large MJD modules

    https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

    DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
    Marlona Sky
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #2 - 2014-12-27 08:11:13 UTC
    This sounds interesting. Supported.
    Aliventi
    Rattini Tribe
    Minmatar Fleet Alliance
    #3 - 2014-12-27 08:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
    I think modifying MWDs as you described is an excellent boost to BCs. You have all my +1s.

    I personally would love to see this extended to LMJDs so BS fleets can get more mobility too. Also, I would like to see two types of scripts. One scripts that allows you to MJD 50km for half the MJD cooldown (100km moves the BC out of lock and damage range. 50km would allow the BC to stay in lock and damage range when using long range weapons), and another script that is the 100km MJD with the full cooldown.

    Either way I hope CCP makes it so!
    Bullet Therapist
    FT Cold Corporation
    #4 - 2014-12-27 08:34:13 UTC
    There's already a call for another balance pass to re-balance battleships. Unless the module defines the ship class I think I'd rather see the hull's base stats changed.

    Not a bad idea though.
    Milton Middleson
    Rifterlings
    #5 - 2014-12-27 09:26:36 UTC
    The first issue seems to be somewhat off-topic.

    Other than that, I fully endorse the concept. I think the heat for MMJD is the more elegant of the two, since it flows better, doesn't involve juggling scripts, and adds a distinct trade-off to picking an MMJD over an MWD without being a severe drawback.
    SmarncaV2
    Doomheim
    #6 - 2014-12-27 12:46:55 UTC
    +1

    i miss battlecruisers
    Abyss Azizora
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #7 - 2014-12-27 12:53:36 UTC
    Ugh... your post doesn't actually contain a single suggestion for fixing battleships, currently being borderline obsolete in Eve online. Despite your double claim that it does in that same post.

    But I whole-heartedly support the buff to BC's though I'm not that fond of the MMJD changes proposed.
    Jonathan Xavier
    Discrete Solutions Ltd.
    #8 - 2014-12-27 16:05:11 UTC
    I really like this idea.
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #9 - 2014-12-27 16:10:47 UTC
    +1 for sure- and extending the same thing to Large MJDs would really start to help battleships come back to life.

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    Discomanco
    We pooped on your lawn
    #10 - 2014-12-27 16:10:53 UTC
    If scripted, maybe add multiple scripts for 50/75/100 km jumps?
    My current issue with MMJD is that you never really need a 100 km jump in a CBC offensively. Right now it's a pure escape tool, that is really easy to stop, so it's not seeing use
    James Baboli
    Warp to Pharmacy
    #11 - 2014-12-27 16:16:47 UTC
    This is different enough from the thread I am running HERE that I am interested in seeing actual specifics.


    I don't think giving a MMJD the ability to also be a full power MWD is a good idea though. Maybe a toned down version, like a 250% -400% increase in speed vs. the 500% of a true MWD, with a strong cap penalty.

    Talking more,

    Flying crazier,

    And drinking more

    Making battleships worth the warp
    Prometheus Exenthal
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #12 - 2014-12-27 21:27:20 UTC
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
    +1 for sure- and extending the same thing to Large MJDs would really start to help battleships come back to life.

    My mistake, I thought I was clear enough in my original posting.
    This would apply to the LMJDs as well Smile

    James Baboli wrote:
    This is different enough from the thread I am running HERE that I am interested in seeing actual specifics.

    I don't think giving a MMJD the ability to also be a full power MWD is a good idea though. Maybe a toned down version, like a 250% -400% increase in speed vs. the 500% of a true MWD, with a strong cap penalty.


    In my post I mentioned that they could be a lower speed *mwd* with jump capability.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

    DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
    Maria Dragoon
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #13 - 2014-12-28 03:57:51 UTC
    With the incoming module rebalances and changes, where modules will be balanced so that you actually give up something to get something instead of a direct upgrade if you pay more, some of these points may be a bit moot.

    Lets see where these module reblance take us first. :)

    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

    "A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
    Caleb Seremshur
    Bloodhorn
    Patchwork Freelancers
    #14 - 2014-12-28 04:13:37 UTC
    Bullet Therapist wrote:
    There's already a call for another balance pass to re-balance battleships. Unless the module defines the ship class I think I'd rather see the hull's base stats changed.

    Not a bad idea though.


    Honestly all battleships need much greater ranges and better lock distance. I don't see how someone can say to sit back and pound an enemy when a good percentage of our weapons have max ranges under 20km. Battleship mounted cannons from 1914 shot up to 22km. In the year 22,000 surely the average battleship weapon in a vacuum can do better. Game balance doesn't work on """""lore""""" but some respect for the fact that a battleship needs a place as high hp/high dps/long range and that it onlu marginally scrapes through on all 3 is a problem.

    I try to fly battleships on SISI fairly often to get an impression of how to use them and... they're just bad. A couple good ones, a couple gimmick ships and then the rest are terrible.
    Valkin Mordirc
    #15 - 2014-12-28 07:26:45 UTC
    This seems like an actual good idea. +1 
    #DeleteTheWeak
    Prometheus Exenthal
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #16 - 2014-12-28 08:12:24 UTC
    Maria Dragoon wrote:
    With the incoming module rebalances and changes, where modules will be balanced so that you actually give up something to get something instead of a direct upgrade if you pay more, some of these points may be a bit moot.

    Lets see where these module reblance take us first. :)


    None of those module rebalances have anything to do with what's being discussed in this thread Ugh

    https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

    DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
    Quadima
    HyperDreams Studios
    #17 - 2014-12-28 08:45:16 UTC
    +1 for MWD becoming MJD with a script / mod

    BUT, it should have a long ( 30 second ? ) loading time, so you can't just switch it out at any moment.

    I see this situation:
    "Oops, seems we're losing this, enemy too fast, can't kite ... turn off MWD, put instant script, jumpdy jump..."

    Saving a huge amount of PG by having a hybrid module instead of two and actually keeping your ship useful would be great !
    Olga Yoska
    Ministry of Lag
    #18 - 2014-12-28 14:42:05 UTC
    Maybe can be good also add afterburner script, then in pvp you have more options in critical situation, and this thing can change eve play style.

    But it require a 30-60 seconds before you can change script.
    Liam Inkuras
    Furnace
    Thermodynamics
    #19 - 2014-12-28 15:03:44 UTC
    Prom, cool idea, but not really my cup of tea. I think the biggest power creep issue right now is speed, and to solve that, I would just give a sweeping 15% nerf to speed across the board for ships small than BC

    I wear my goggles at night.

    Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
    elitatwo
    Zansha Expansion
    #20 - 2014-12-28 17:57:00 UTC
    Liam Inkuras wrote:
    Prom, cool idea, but not really my cup of tea. I think the biggest power creep issue right now is speed, and to solve that, I would just give a sweeping 15% nerf to speed across the board for ships small than BC


    But Liam, do you really wanna end the nano age 2.0 so soon™??

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