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Player progression
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Marsha Mallow
#21 - 2014-12-23 21:46:08 UTC
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Eve progression:

1. buy subscription
2. go mining
3. get blown up mining
4. buy Titan pilot from bazar
5. Join Goons with Titan pilot and win Eve.

All this in the first hour.

6. Unsub out of boredom
7. Resub, decide to sell titan
8. Jump to lowsec, die to lowfeckers
9. Quit/Become lowfecker

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Serene Repose
#22 - 2014-12-24 03:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
The first mistake is to confuse EVE with other games. (I guess here I should say, "It's not.") The second mistake follows from the first...just let me have the gear and I'll play at a higher level than your artificial limitations will allow....we get this all the time. Usually refugees from other games wander upon us thinking since they were leet where they came from, it'll just take a few weeks to own EVE.

A few weeks go by. They don't own EVE, so they start blaming things...things that take time naturally. It is a person who probably should be shopping for another WoW since WoW got so boring. But, EVE has its rightful reputation, and a lot of egos want to ride that wave. Sure. And, it can be done as long as you don't mistake it for some other wave.

'T is wise to bear in mind, here we have time. We're not in a rush. Our egos don't demand we be leet in two weeks (or the game must suck, cause obviously I don't - judging by how I've owned everything I've done till now.) EVE is an experience unto itself. It is not "another computer game." The ancients among us, me included, will keep telling you it's a SANDBOX. It's a place for things to happen.

The ones who take their time and let things unfold before them have no complaints (such as these.) The ones who want to WIN do. Always have. Always will. Thanks for once again bringing up a long dead subject, OP. Maybe you'll learn. I don't think you have the patience for it, personally.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Runner Caldear
Rub Cal Corp
#23 - 2014-12-26 22:42:17 UTC
Thanks everyone for all the feedback and help in pointing out my obvious stereotypical thinking. Eve is not like any other game I have come across and I am trying to find my place and my way in it, without too much grief or or loss. But I am sure you veterans will all have something to contribute about that too.

So allow me just to say thank you for putting me straight and I look forward to one day being as wise and accomplished as you are. (Is accomplishment of any value in Eve? Is it even the right term?)

I will just say "fly safe" and leave...........
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-12-26 22:45:49 UTC
Oh no....

Your not going to get away that easily for posting tripe.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Runner Caldear
Rub Cal Corp
#25 - 2014-12-26 22:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Runner Caldear
AAAAAAAA -------- Warp, warp warp!!!!!

Actually, to all you "veterans" out there, even the ones that can spell, you will say anything to justify the exorbitant time you have invested into this game, including singing it's praises. But you are blind to the similarities and the faults this game has.
As games go, and yes, this is just a game, Eve is well designed and well constructed, and I love it, for now. As with any product on the shelf of the great supermarket in the sky, some people will find it more satisfying than others.
Eve is a niche in the games market. And that is it's appeal. If it had to become more commercial and more "player friendly" it's membership would climb and subsequently it would become even more commercial, and so on and so on. (Personally, I don't think CCP has the ability to handle the volume of clients a game like "World of Warcraft" has.)

So say whatever you want to make the loss of your free time more bearable, but please don't think you know any more than I do. You yourself made it clear that game and player progression does not exist, so don't claim amassed skill points as if it is gold, but quite frankly, you said that it is not.

Lol!

o7
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-12-26 23:19:54 UTC
Runner Caldear wrote:
AAAAAAAA -------- Warp, warp warp!!!!!

Actually, to all you "veterans" out there, even the ones that can spell, you will say anything to justify the exorbitant time you have invested into this game, including singing it's praises. But you are blind to the similarities and the faults this game has.
As games go, and yes, this is just a game, Eve is well designed and well constructed, and I love it, for now. As with any product on the shelf of the great supermarket in the sky, some people will find it more satisfying than others.
Eve is a niche in the games market. And that is it's appeal. If it had to become more commercial and more "player friendly" it's membership would climb and subsequently it would become even more commercial, and so on and so on. (Personally, I don't think CCP has the ability to handle the volume of clients a game like "World of Warcraft" has.)

So say whatever you want to make the loss of your free time more bearable, but please don't think you know any more than I do. You yourself made it clear that game and player progression does not exist, so don't claim amassed skill points as if it is gold, but quite frankly, you said that it is not.

Lol!

o7


Wow is not a single shard server game. Bad to compare like that.

And no... I just find it odd when a new person does not seem to comprehend how progression works in eve. Skill point means nothing. As a 10 mil sp char i could easily kill a 100mil sp char. You just don't understand why or it seems you don't really care to.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Kira Inari
Generic Tax Shelter Conglomerate
#27 - 2014-12-26 23:46:56 UTC
Runner Caldear wrote:
Hi there, as with any game there is a natural progression for all players:Arrow

1. Start: Learn and skill up. get to know the pecking order, realize you don't stand a chance against more seasoned players
2. Novice: Learn some more, start balancing the wallet, start getting some better gear.....still getting killed easily...
3. Apprentice: Start to understand the bigger picture, know where not to go.....sometimes takes a risk....pays dearly.....
4. Mid stream: Can hold your own with same level players......smile knowingly at the nub questions......understand some of the Eve speak better......start to take on nil sec.
5. Old er gamer: Making name and kicking ass.........rolling in ISK.......local advice channel for newer players
6. Veteran: Deep understanding of the game and your own abilities, wise beyond the game.........teacher, mentor, guru....

And the game is structured like that too. The newer player does not have access to the higher skills or higher ISK making avenues. As is every society and corporation in real life, you have those with seniority and those without. And those that do not have it yet, will only understand that later in the game......this is not a game, it is a community, of which the virtual reality is very real.

Fly safe and learn,

Runner.Smile



To be clear, you're misunderstanding exactly how the learning curve works. While your curve is true if you play solo, it gets vastly different when you incorporate others into your gameplay. This is an MMO, and Eve does one thing better than any other MMO has to date, or probably ever will: Emphasize just how important others are to your gameplay.

In the 3 years I played "solo" -- never getting on comms, never really committing to any given corp -- I learned a bit about Eve. Not a lot, but some. But when I joined a corp that was willing to teach me and had the knowledge to do so? Exponential learning. As long as you're willing to listen to a more knowledgeable player, and as long as they're willing to teach you (Yes, some are) you can learn much more from them in a few short hours than you could in weeks - maybe even months - on your own.

The same can be said for Eve's content. Alone, you're hitting massive skill and isk blocks to do things like, say, soloing C4s. But in a group? You can do it in under a million SP and actually contribute to the group and make large amounts of isk. While, yes, you can't do things like fly a Recon ship or a T3 cruiser in that amount of time -- there are some skill blocks you simply can't pass -- most content itself simply isn't locked by large skill points, it's locked behind player interaction.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#28 - 2014-12-26 23:57:45 UTC
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-12-27 00:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Harrison Tato wrote:
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/


You are the wrong person to give people advice. You can pvp in this game as soon as you are able to fit a scram. Just because you struggled does not mean everybody will.

Countering your kill boards links i could post a few myself killing battleships of players much older than i was using my frigate or cruiser.

SP helps yes, but in less than month of focused skilling that players will be on the same foot as in a in a frigate of his choosing. SP matters naught if you don't know how to use it affectively.

Bad advice or information grabs my attention the wrong way. Will see you ASAP.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Kira Inari
Generic Tax Shelter Conglomerate
#30 - 2014-12-27 00:11:31 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/


I've been shown killmails of fights between a fleet of T1 cruisers and a near equally-sized, much more expensive and skillpoint-intense fleet of T2, Faction, and other ships, all Cruiser or higher (We're talking a Sin, Ashimmu, and more) where the losses for the T1 cruiser size was 1-2 ships (40-50m) and the losses for the massively better-skilled, more expensive fleet was on the order of 2b+.

Skill points and Isk cost aren't everything.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2014-12-27 00:50:54 UTC
Player progression and character progression really are two different things in this game. The knowledge a player brings to the table can outweigh a significant difference in SP's between him/her and their opponent. You don't get this by 'leveling up', it comes either through personal experience, research, or from advice given and taken from other players.
Yes, higher SP's do make fitting easier and help to optimize your ship's performance. It is not an 'I WIN' button.
In my corp we have a few younger pilots, and I mean really young pilots, who have been rampaging in a manner that I can only envy. They are motivated and have gone out of their way to learn HOW, and it's paying off for them.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2014-12-27 01:08:28 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEpKh1EhMeE

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Jenshae Chiroptera
#33 - 2014-12-27 01:14:10 UTC
Grauth Thorner wrote:
In EVE I wouldn't call it natural... Learning curve


This image has been going around and around for so many years. It is becoming as insipid and sycophantic a thing to reference as Dunning-Kruger effect and Godwin's law.

When do we go full circle and debate whether trees make a sound in the forest if no one hears them?

There are quite a few games that most people fail out of in the first week because they don't read, think or ask questions of others.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#34 - 2014-12-27 01:21:15 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

There are quite a few games that most people fail out of in the first week because they don't read, think or ask questions of others.


Hell, these days game design holds your hand as far as it will go, with big yellow buttons on the minimap so you know the general area of the McGuffin the quest you didn't read told you retrieve.

You're right that the old meme isn't accurate anymore, but it's mostly because the learning curve for damn near every other MMO on the market has turned into a nice gentle downward slope.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#35 - 2014-12-27 01:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Tato
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/


You are the wrong person to give people advice. You can pvp in this game as soon as you are able to fit a scram. Just because you struggled does not mean everybody will.

Countering your kill boards links i could post a few myself killing battleships of players much older than i was using my frigate or cruiser.

SP helps yes, but in less than month of focused skilling that players will be on the same foot as in a in a frigate of his choosing. SP matters naught if you don't know how to use it affectively.

Bad advice or information grabs my attention the wrong way. Will see you ASAP.


I hope so. You have wussed out on me before spaceship video game hero. I didn't focus my training when I started out because there were so many things to do I tried a little of everything.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#36 - 2014-12-27 01:46:34 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/


You are the wrong person to give people advice. You can pvp in this game as soon as you are able to fit a scram. Just because you struggled does not mean everybody will.

Countering your kill boards links i could post a few myself killing battleships of players much older than i was using my frigate or cruiser.

SP helps yes, but in less than month of focused skilling that players will be on the same foot as in a in a frigate of his choosing. SP matters naught if you don't know how to use it affectively.

Bad advice or information grabs my attention the wrong way. Will see you ASAP.


I hope so. You have wussed out on me before spaceship video game hero. I didn't focus my training when I started out because there were so many things to do I tried a little of everything.


And make sure you come after me with a single month old character so you are putting you ISK where your mouth is.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2014-12-27 02:17:41 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:


And make sure you come after me with a single month old character so you are putting you ISK where your mouth is.


Afraid of a little mechanical leverage?

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Noriko Mai
#38 - 2014-12-27 04:23:06 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Grauth Thorner wrote:
In EVE I wouldn't call it natural... Learning curve


This image has been going around and around for so many years. It is becoming as insipid and sycophantic a thing to reference as Dunning-Kruger effect and Godwin's law.

When do we go full circle and debate whether trees make a sound in the forest if no one hears them?

There are quite a few games that most people fail out of in the first week because they don't read, think or ask questions of others.

The image is from Dwarf Fortress and describes the learning experience of it 100%. EVE is kindergarden compared to DF.

Also see http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/4/40/FunComic.png

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-12-27 09:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Harrison Tato wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Yeah, SPs matter in EVE. Don't let people tell you otherwise. There are lots of other factors involved but if you can only fly an Incursus with 1900 HP and 30 DPS you are going to have a hard time beating a year old character who has trained some PVP and ship support sklills in 1v1 in another frigate. I just started a second character with my free 20 days and forgot how many skills you have to train just to fit out a T1 frigate decently. When people talk about new characters and low SPs in this game they are talking about people who have played a year and have 20 mil. Not a couple of weeks. I am new and this guy was newer.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43333520/

or this guy - don't be him - he challenged me to a duel becuase he was in a battleship and I was in a lowly frigate.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/43269997/


You are the wrong person to give people advice. You can pvp in this game as soon as you are able to fit a scram. Just because you struggled does not mean everybody will.

Countering your kill boards links i could post a few myself killing battleships of players much older than i was using my frigate or cruiser.

SP helps yes, but in less than month of focused skilling that players will be on the same foot as in a in a frigate of his choosing. SP matters naught if you don't know how to use it affectively.

Bad advice or information grabs my attention the wrong way. Will see you ASAP.


I hope so. You have wussed out on me before spaceship video game hero. I didn't focus my training when I started out because there were so many things to do I tried a little of everything.


And make sure you come after me with a single month old character so you are putting you ISK where your mouth is.


Say it as it was. When I wardecced the corp majority left. Those that was still in it logged on and stayed afk in station for hours never leaving. Including YOU.

Always remember that.

I got many wars I declare, you are more then welcome to join in as allies to "help" them.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Nevil Oscillator
#40 - 2014-12-27 11:08:50 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Oh no....

Your not going to get away that easily for posting tripe.



+1
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