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Suggestion for bigger mining ship
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Velicitia
XS Tech
#21 - 2014-12-26 13:45:58 UTC
Anhenka wrote:

So if you want an eve equivalent of an armed and armored Spanish treasure galleon, you will have to sacrifice cargo space for additional armor and armament, just like they did.



Use a Rokh?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Jenshae Chiroptera
#22 - 2014-12-26 14:09:40 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Isn't a tanky, damage dealing exhumer called a skiff?

I don't know much about fitting barges, but isn't 114k EHP with a yield of 1117 per cycle, with no boosts, not actually that bad at all? All that needs is a couple of cheap fitting implants, so you'd even have room to make it better with whatever other implants or bling you care to add.

Since there is already a barge that tanks as hard as you want, and puts out a smidge over 200 DPS too, more if you sacrifice some yield, what's the point of this thing other than to make sure the mineral market doesn't bounce back up?


I think it is about 70K eHP with a shield rep for hefty rats.

Veldspar yields:
Hulk - 31.45 m/3 per second with drones and 26.30 m/3 per second without. (16.5%)
Skiff - 27.44 m/3 per second with and 22.28 m/3 per second without (19%)
Proc - 23.27 m/3 per second with and 16.56 m/3 per second without (29%)

I don't even consider Covetors, Mackinaws and Retrievers as viable options.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#23 - 2014-12-26 14:14:32 UTC
You can push more than 70k EHP with a shield rep. Just need to give up a couple of those yield mods miners are so addicted to.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2014-12-26 14:45:49 UTC
Well, if you want reps, you can bolt on an ancillary rep for 104k tank and just over 1k yield.



Skiffs tank surprisingly well.
Jaantrag
#25 - 2014-12-26 15:34:28 UTC
no need for a bigger mining ship ... meybe only one that is able to melt thro the spoduman rock in null ? ... :D

and what is wrong with 30k+ ehp on a hulk, that still gets better yield then max yield skiff or mackinaw ? ..

EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#26 - 2014-12-26 17:15:28 UTC
this is no different than the bot cleanup years ago. The economy will balance itself out. Miners that don't bot should not get punished for your ignorance.

Is that my two cents or yours?
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#27 - 2014-12-26 18:50:09 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Isn't a tanky, damage dealing exhumer called a skiff?

I don't know much about fitting barges, but isn't 114k EHP with a yield of 1117 per cycle, with no boosts, not actually that bad at all? All that needs is a couple of cheap fitting implants, so you'd even have room to make it better with whatever other implants or bling you care to add.

Since there is already a barge that tanks as hard as you want, and puts out a smidge over 200 DPS too, more if you sacrifice some yield, what's the point of this thing other than to make sure the mineral market doesn't bounce back up?


Has ugly yield, costs like a battleship, hits like a frigate, owned by every wacko with a smartbomb or other easy way to kill his drones, which he can't carry much. The only difference EHP makes to a barge is how long do you prefer to die. This needs changes.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#28 - 2014-12-26 18:56:32 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Isn't a tanky, damage dealing exhumer called a skiff?

I don't know much about fitting barges, but isn't 114k EHP with a yield of 1117 per cycle, with no boosts, not actually that bad at all? All that needs is a couple of cheap fitting implants, so you'd even have room to make it better with whatever other implants or bling you care to add.

Since there is already a barge that tanks as hard as you want, and puts out a smidge over 200 DPS too, more if you sacrifice some yield, what's the point of this thing other than to make sure the mineral market doesn't bounce back up?


Has ugly yield, costs like a battleship, hits like a frigate, owned by every wacko with a smartbomb or other easy way to kill his drones, which he can't carry much. The only difference EHP makes to a barge is how long do you prefer to die. This needs changes.


You don't get to have High yield, High tank, High Cargo, High DPS, and ability to escape from people who have a point on you if they kill all your drone.


You just flat up don't. You never will. Get over it.


Tank/Yield/Cargo. Pick two.

Versetile DPS that can't be killed and can easily fend off agressors in nullsec/lowsec is not even an option.
Actually sure it is. Mining Dominix.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#29 - 2014-12-26 19:16:22 UTC
shimiku wrote:
if you remove the 200% drone dmg and add not usable in high sec then im fine


I was going to say Yes, if no hi-sec access, but you stole my Thunder!!

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2014-12-26 19:44:52 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Isn't a tanky, damage dealing exhumer called a skiff?

I don't know much about fitting barges, but isn't 114k EHP with a yield of 1117 per cycle, with no boosts, not actually that bad at all? All that needs is a couple of cheap fitting implants, so you'd even have room to make it better with whatever other implants or bling you care to add.

Since there is already a barge that tanks as hard as you want, and puts out a smidge over 200 DPS too, more if you sacrifice some yield, what's the point of this thing other than to make sure the mineral market doesn't bounce back up?


Has ugly yield, costs like a battleship, hits like a frigate, owned by every wacko with a smartbomb or other easy way to kill his drones, which he can't carry much. The only difference EHP makes to a barge is how long do you prefer to die. This needs changes.



Yield is close to or the same as a mackinaw. Cost is the same as any other T2 cruiser. Carries two flights of drones quite happily, so you have spares if someone smartbombs your drones, and you can pack ECM drones to bug out if you have to. You can even bring a depot along to refit stabs!

While you might want something with the yirld of two hulks, the tank of a marauder and the DPS of a dreadnaught, with the cargo of a freighter to go with it, there's a little thing called 'game balance' that you need to be aware of.
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#31 - 2014-12-26 21:16:58 UTC
w3ak3stl1nk wrote:
this is no different than the bot cleanup years ago. The economy will balance itself out. Miners that don't bot should not get punished for your ignorance.


Didn't they increase the yield per cycle a little while after the bot cleanup?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#32 - 2014-12-27 00:04:26 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Well, if you want reps, you can bolt on an ancillary rep for 104k tank and just over 1k yield.
Skiffs tank surprisingly well.

Don't use total yield. Bonuses and different ships and modules have different cycle rates.

m/3 per second.

James Baboli wrote:
You can push more than 70k EHP with a shield rep. Just need to give up a couple of those yield mods miners are so addicted to.

Mine is with a DC. There is no yield mod in mid slots I know about. I think one rig is fair enough. Considering where I mine - you dock up or die.
Every little band of interceptors or destroyers can wipe you out before anyone could warp from an anomoly to come help you. (We have timed it)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#33 - 2014-12-27 00:43:52 UTC
is boxer users have no problem with the changes since only broadcasting is banned now
Jenshae Chiroptera
#34 - 2014-12-27 01:03:21 UTC
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
is boxer users have no problem with the changes since only broadcasting is banned now


CCP caved because too many were quitting?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#35 - 2014-12-27 01:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
is boxer users have no problem with the changes since only broadcasting is banned now


CCP caved because too many were quitting?


CCP didn't cave at all. You can still cycle between several clients and tell each individual client what to do. It does not scale as well as the mass input broadcasting, but it does work pretty well for 3-4 miners or ratters.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lienzo
Amanuensis
#36 - 2014-12-27 07:35:40 UTC
Eh, just put strip miner hardpoints on the orca and rorqual.

Next, let ships in the same squad and on the same grid share cargo access directly (can be flagged off). Jetcans were interesting for producing content for a decade, but now it's time to try new things. Tractoring is the province of the Noctis.

Generalize the Orca/Rorqual to be a more generalized fleet support ship. How about 5% per level boost to all remote boosting modules for all ships in squad. That's their remote reps, remote sensor boosters, etc. Maybe it could boost industrial abilities by extending the range of mining lasers, extending the range of tractor beams and salvagers.

Perhaps it could bonus access difficulty bonuses systemwide with the right industrial links. Ideally, the ship should be just as beneficial to mission fleets as mining fleets. Maybe it could even help fleets reach content sites that would otherwise be inaccessible.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-01-02 13:16:04 UTC
Yes to a battleship-sized mining ship. No to it mining any faster than a Covetor. Its selling point should be strong defensive potential at the cost of speed and, well, it costs more.





Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
You pay about 200M for a battleship.
You pay about 200M for an exhumer.

Exhumer is tech 2, similar cost to a tech 2 cruiser. Mining barges cost between a tech 1 cruiser and a tech 1 battlecruiser.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Dyexz
Comrades in Construction
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#38 - 2015-01-02 23:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyexz
A mining Battleship(?) doesn't sounds like such a bad idea, it could be argued that it is possible to make compensations to make it more somewhat more balanced, imagine this:

High slots (5): 4 Turrets + 1 Utility
Mid slots: 3
Low slots: 4

Cargohold: 800 m³
Ore bay: 7500 m³

ORE Industial bonuses (per skill level):
+20% Bonus to Strip Miner Range

Role:
Ability to equip Strip Miners


Now this is still only a raw idea and is subject to change. but the general idea of this is to give the pilot the choice to either go for firepower or to increase the mining yield.

- with 4 Strip Miners, this would probably yield somewhere between Procurer and Hulk.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#39 - 2015-01-03 00:01:35 UTC
Dyexz wrote:
A mining Battleship(?) doesn't sounds like such a bad idea, it could be argued that it is possible to make compensations to make it more somewhat more balanced, imagine this:

High slots (6): 5 Turrets + 1 Utility
Mid slots: 3
Low slots: 4

Cargohold: 800 m³
Ore bay: 7500 m³

ORE Industial bonuses (per skill level):
+20% Bonus to Strip Miner Range

Role:
Ability to equip Strip Miners


Now this is still only a raw idea and is subject to change. but the general idea of this is to gives the pilot the choice to either go for firepower or to increase the mining yield.

- with 5 Strip Miners, this would probably yield somewhere between Procurer and Hulk.


Except that that ship there mines more than a max skill hulk, at ranges further than a max skilled Mackinaw with Rorqual links and Harvester implants, and has more tank than a max skill skiff.

No. You don't get to have an ungankable BS sized miner combining every positive aspect of all the barges (except cargobay), with build in superboosts and implant sets.

No for the same reason I earlier was cranky at a gankers request for 8 gun medium gun wielding mini ABC destroyers capable of having 1100 dps.

You simply don't get to have everything you want. And this idea is far out of the ballpark for reasonable.


You want a BS sized miner? Well Rohk never went anywhere.
Dyexz
Comrades in Construction
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#40 - 2015-01-03 00:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyexz
Dyexz wrote:
A mining Battleship(?) doesn't sounds like such a bad idea, it could be argued that it is possible to make compensations to make it more somewhat more balanced, imagine this:

High slots (5): 4 Turrets + 1 Utility
Mid slots: 3
Low slots: 4

Cargohold: 800 m³
Ore bay: 7500 m³

ORE Industial bonuses (per skill level):
+20% Bonus to Strip Miner Range

Role:
Ability to equip Strip Miners


Now this is still only a raw idea and is subject to change. but the general idea of this is to give the pilot the choice to either go for firepower or to increase the mining yield.

- with 4 Strip Miners, this would probably yield somewhere between Procurer and Hulk.


Update:
- Reduced the number turret slots to 4 down from 5 (5 total high slots), which is more in line with my intended goal. Now only yields ~700m³/min (with only 4 Strips and max affecting skills).
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