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Trolling and the internet: Sometimes it's too far.

Author
Siigari Kitawa
New Eden Archery Club
#1 - 2014-12-20 22:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Siigari Kitawa
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2877190/Teenage-Little-Pony-fan-posted-heartbreaking-YouTube-video-APOLOGISING-internet-trolls-tormented-days-threw-train.html

The only reason I'm posting this is because he's got an Eve poster in the background. He was one of ours!

Look, we all play Eve. Some people are nicer than others here, and I know and respect that. But going too far as to push someone off the edge? At the end of the day we're all people and we should always pay respect that there is in fact a person on the other side of the monitor, not just letters on a screen or a voice in teamspeak.

All I'm asking is please remember that the next time you or someone you know starts ramping up on someone else. Dial it back a notch and remember that your point of view, or proving yourself right or belittling someone else is NOT that important and you can always just walk away. Sure there's anonymity in the internet, but when people are so depressed they're doing this, being a friend can pay out way more than anything else we can do.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX

Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-12-20 23:07:11 UTC
It is generally considered that youtube comments is detrimental to your mental health which leads to the comments being disabled on some channels but some channels have it much better where the subscribers take it upon themselves to moderate any signs of asinine behavior in the comments.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Badel Jramodarr
#3 - 2014-12-21 03:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Badel Jramodarr
When your self worth comes solely from the internet and the comments therein - whether it be facebook, youtube, etc - you're going to have a bad day.

That being said, when you take away accountability through anonymity there is no barrier for conduct. Add in mob mentality and you have a snowball effect that can quickly get out of hand.

On a side note:
I think it's good to highlight this negative behaviour, and bring it to light as awareness lessens troll's ability to be effective but, like the article in OP's post and many before it, there is no links to helpful resources to teach people how to recognise & handle trolling.
I did a quick search and found numerous pages on the subject (eg: first result) but for those who's search-fu is a bit lacking I would of thought it be pertinent, if not mandatory, considering the subject matter and the people likely to read it - namely: parents.
The article had a golden opportunity to be part of the solution but chose to link to a site that is primarily there to help in troubled times. Now, I don't have a problem with that per se but I would of thought teaching people to be able to recognise a troll, thus avoiding being drawn in, and consequently, it's negative effects would be just as important as dealing with the subsequent aftermath.
Pfft, call me crazy - I would of thought this would of been obvious while writing the article, but I'll refrain from making any presumptions on the writers motivations and cognitive processes.


In closing, OP's points are succinct and I agree wholeheartedly
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4 - 2014-12-21 09:42:51 UTC
Badel Jramodarr wrote:
When your self worth comes solely from the internet and the comments therein - whether it be facebook, youtube, etc - you're going to have a bad day.

That being said, when you take away accountability through anonymity there is no barrier for conduct. Add in mob mentality and you have a snowball effect that can quickly get out of hand.

On a side note:
I think it's good to highlight this negative behaviour, and bring it to light as awareness lessens troll's ability to be effective but, like the article in OP's post and many before it, there is no links to helpful resources to teach people how to recognise & handle trolling.
I did a quick search and found numerous pages on the subject (eg: first result) but for those who's search-fu is a bit lacking I would of thought it be pertinent, if not mandatory, considering the subject matter and the people likely to read it - namely: parents.
The article had a golden opportunity to be part of the solution but chose to link to a site that is primarily there to help in troubled times. Now, I don't have a problem with that per se but I would of thought teaching people to be able to recognise a troll, thus avoiding being drawn in, and consequently, it's negative effects would be just as important as dealing with the subsequent aftermath.
Pfft, call me crazy - I would of thought this would of been obvious while writing the article, but I'll refrain from making any presumptions on the writers motivations and cognitive processes.


In closing, OP's points are succinct and I agree wholeheartedly


Some people just can not learn to handle trolls. This is why it is important to give them a worthy exit way that doesn't ends bad.

Think of a different issue, domestic violence. Some women can not learn to stay away from abusive relationships. "They shouid learn..." is not going to sort it on its own.

One key issue with any problem steming from the mind, is the awareness of not being special, of knowing that there's other people with the same issues and resources available to help all those in that circumstance. That boy needed to know that even at the end of the road to suicide, there is still another way out.
Badel Jramodarr
#5 - 2014-12-21 09:55:12 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Some people just can not learn to handle trolls. This is why it is important to give them a worthy exit way that doesn't ends bad.

Think of a different issue, domestic violence. Some women can not learn to stay away from abusive relationships. "They shouid learn..." is not going to sort it on its own.

One key issue with any problem steming from the mind, is the awareness of not being special, of knowing that there's other people with the same issues and resources available to help all those in that circumstance. That boy needed to know that even at the end of the road to suicide, there is still another way out.



It may not have been clear but I was advocating both forms of help.
I agree with you totally with what you've written, it's just that I believe both avenues should be presented as a resource on articles of that nature
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#6 - 2014-12-21 10:21:37 UTC
The only problem I have with trolls is that they are real people.

Meaning they are "out there somewhere".

And they can hide in a voting booth and vote "representatives" over me who can screw up my life. Being trolls, their choices are not apt to be wise.

And that means ignoring them and not letting them bother me is still not enough thanks to this disaster known as "democracy".

The real reason why trolls are so effective these days is because everybody has to live in fear of the opinions and ideas of everybody else and hence spending your life like that forms bad habits whereby everybody has to be "dealt with" instead of flat out ignored.


It is time though that new awareness about trolling, not in the usual form of "anti bullying" campaigns which is really clamoring for censorship in disguise but instead to shore up the targets of trolls. Think along the lines of "if these people can get to you then you got a problem". The comparison alone is enough. Some people can get trolled endlessly and not be bothered and others will be found with a suicide note.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#7 - 2014-12-21 21:23:07 UTC
The article said the victim had a learning disability, and relied on the internet as his only form of social interaction. That's an especially vulnerable kind of person. We have quite a few people with various disabilities in the EVE community, so we should be aware and know when to back off.
Laken Starr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-12-22 09:36:59 UTC
Further proof that John Gabriel's GID Theory was way ahead of its time. Anonymity really brings out the worst in people.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#9 - 2014-12-23 01:54:00 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
The article said the victim had a learning disability, and relied on the internet as his only form of social interaction. That's an especially vulnerable kind of person. We have quite a few people with various disabilities in the EVE community, so we should be aware and know when to back off.



Indeed. One thing I can't avoid is when some players boast about getting others to fly into some rage and then remark "Eve is not for them". This usually comes with some self aggrandizing sense of accomplishment or some claim that the game or maybe the entire world is better off somehow.

But then question begs to be asked. If someone is not suited to play the game and may be at some handicap or lack of development to handle this game, then what does that make of the people whose game it is to antagonize them into a frothing rage and possibly drive them off?

Or as one professor who opened my eyes to the world once said, having started out in life as the person who worked for CBS and answered the mail for the Archie Bunker show: "You know, there were TWO bigots in that house".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#10 - 2014-12-23 02:51:37 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The only problem I have with trolls is that they are real people.

Meaning they are "out there somewhere".

And they can hide in a voting booth and vote "representatives" over me who can screw up my life. Being trolls, their choices are not apt to be wise.

And that means ignoring them and not letting them bother me is still not enough thanks to this disaster known as "democracy".

The real reason why trolls are so effective these days is because everybody has to live in fear of the opinions and ideas of everybody else and hence spending your life like that forms bad habits whereby everybody has to be "dealt with" instead of flat out ignored.


It is time though that new awareness about trolling, not in the usual form of "anti bullying" campaigns which is really clamoring for censorship in disguise but instead to shore up the targets of trolls. Think along the lines of "if these people can get to you then you got a problem". The comparison alone is enough. Some people can get trolled endlessly and not be bothered and others will be found with a suicide note.


It's a mental health issue, and a lack of social resources issue. This is why we have terms like "at risk youth".

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#11 - 2014-12-23 06:51:08 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The only problem I have with trolls is that they are real people.

Meaning they are "out there somewhere".

And they can hide in a voting booth and vote "representatives" over me who can screw up my life. Being trolls, their choices are not apt to be wise.

And that means ignoring them and not letting them bother me is still not enough thanks to this disaster known as "democracy".

The real reason why trolls are so effective these days is because everybody has to live in fear of the opinions and ideas of everybody else and hence spending your life like that forms bad habits whereby everybody has to be "dealt with" instead of flat out ignored.


It is time though that new awareness about trolling, not in the usual form of "anti bullying" campaigns which is really clamoring for censorship in disguise but instead to shore up the targets of trolls. Think along the lines of "if these people can get to you then you got a problem". The comparison alone is enough. Some people can get trolled endlessly and not be bothered and others will be found with a suicide note.


It's a mental health issue, and a lack of social resources issue. This is why we have terms like "at risk youth".



And that leads me to wonder, yet again, how we could protect at risk youth without screwing things up.

The only thing I can do personally is not give other people online a hard time.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-12-23 07:53:19 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The only problem I have with trolls is that they are real people.

Meaning they are "out there somewhere".

And they can hide in a voting booth and vote "representatives" over me who can screw up my life. Being trolls, their choices are not apt to be wise.

And that means ignoring them and not letting them bother me is still not enough thanks to this disaster known as "democracy".

The real reason why trolls are so effective these days is because everybody has to live in fear of the opinions and ideas of everybody else and hence spending your life like that forms bad habits whereby everybody has to be "dealt with" instead of flat out ignored.


It is time though that new awareness about trolling, not in the usual form of "anti bullying" campaigns which is really clamoring for censorship in disguise but instead to shore up the targets of trolls. Think along the lines of "if these people can get to you then you got a problem". The comparison alone is enough. Some people can get trolled endlessly and not be bothered and others will be found with a suicide note.


It's a mental health issue, and a lack of social resources issue. This is why we have terms like "at risk youth".


And that leads me to wonder, yet again, how we could protect at risk youth without screwing things up.

The only thing I can do personally is not give other people online a hard time.


You can start by building up people's self-esteem, make them feel good about themselves.

Personally, this is how I define trolling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHqGV5WjS4w

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#13 - 2014-12-25 17:58:17 UTC
the only thing i hate about trolls is that they live under bridges and stink up the place. get a address and some dignity, you filthy creatures.
Lady Areola Fappington
#14 - 2014-12-25 19:07:25 UTC
I agree totally. I've often said there is no room in the Eve universe for people who like to spew racist, sexist, homophobic insults and trolling. Those types are the scum of the earth, and have no place in our community.

I've stolen a page from my friends in the LGBT community on how to handle that. They Google screen names and such from people who fling vileness, then use the information to contact friends/family/employees about the behaviour. Once you take the anonymity away like that, people tend to get apologetic really fast.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-12-25 22:10:38 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
the only thing i hate about trolls is that they live under bridges and stink up the place. get a address and some dignity, you filthy creatures.


Gives me an idea. I should get some business cards, a suit and a suitcase.

Pop out from under my bridge and hand people my card which would say:

"Alpheias - Professional Troll. Taking it to the next level."

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
#16 - 2014-12-25 22:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I agree totally. I've often said there is no room in the Eve universe for people who like to spew racist, sexist, homophobic insults and trolling. Those types are the scum of the earth, and have no place in our community.

I've stolen a page from my friends in the LGBT community on how to handle that. They Google screen names and such from people who fling vileness, then use the information to contact friends/family/employees about the behaviour. Once you take the anonymity away like that, people tend to get apologetic really fast.


And yet, they're here. In fact, I'd say that these people are the backbone of the community. Basically, it's every (wo)man for themself, because people on the internet by and large just do not care about anyone else outside of their narrow friend circles.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#17 - 2014-12-26 05:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaaeliaa
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I agree totally. I've often said there is no room in the Eve universe for people who like to spew racist, sexist, homophobic insults and trolling. Those types are the scum of the earth, and have no place in our community.

I've stolen a page from my friends in the LGBT community on how to handle that. They Google screen names and such from people who fling vileness, then use the information to contact friends/family/employees about the behaviour. Once you take the anonymity away like that, people tend to get apologetic really fast.


And yet, they're here. In fact, I'd say that these people are the backbone of the community. Basically, it's every (wo)man for themself, because people on the internet by and large just do not care about anyone else outside of their narrow friend circles.


There's a pretty big difference between not caring and going out of your way to ruin the experience of others. I don't particularly care about anyone outside my friend circle, other than in a fairly nebulous and relatively weak sense of community or shared humanity, but that doesn't mean I should antagonize and needle people outside said friend circle.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-12-26 10:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I agree totally. I've often said there is no room in the Eve universe for people who like to spew racist, sexist, homophobic insults and trolling. Those types are the scum of the earth, and have no place in our community.

I've stolen a page from my friends in the LGBT community on how to handle that. They Google screen names and such from people who fling vileness, then use the information to contact friends/family/employees about the behaviour. Once you take the anonymity away like that, people tend to get apologetic really fast.


Once more, it is proven that individuals with hypersensitive dispositions shouldn't be on the internet, much less have access to any technology that could expose them to the internet.

It is nothing but irresponsibility at this stage.

I, for one, will not self-censor myself because there are individuals or groups of individuals who might be offended over the things I say or write.

edit: but what really disgusts me about people like you, is that you are willing to ruin people's lives under the veil of ANONYMITY which is no better than the people that fling hatred around, you colossal ******* idiots.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-12-26 10:15:40 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I agree totally. I've often said there is no room in the Eve universe for people who like to spew racist, sexist, homophobic insults and trolling. Those types are the scum of the earth, and have no place in our community.

I've stolen a page from my friends in the LGBT community on how to handle that. They Google screen names and such from people who fling vileness, then use the information to contact friends/family/employees about the behaviour. Once you take the anonymity away like that, people tend to get apologetic really fast.


Once more, it is proven that individuals with hypersensitive dispositions shouldn't be on the internet, much less have access to any technology that could expose them to the internet.

It is nothing but irresponsibility at this stage.

I, for one, will not self-censor myself because there are individuals or groups of individuals who might be offended over the things I say or write.

pretty much this.


a bit harsh indeed, but the saying "if you can't handle the heat, gtfo of the kitchen" applies here.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
#20 - 2014-12-26 10:40:27 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I agree totally. I've often said there is no room in the Eve universe for people who like to spew racist, sexist, homophobic insults and trolling. Those types are the scum of the earth, and have no place in our community.

I've stolen a page from my friends in the LGBT community on how to handle that. They Google screen names and such from people who fling vileness, then use the information to contact friends/family/employees about the behaviour. Once you take the anonymity away like that, people tend to get apologetic really fast.


And yet, they're here. In fact, I'd say that these people are the backbone of the community. Basically, it's every (wo)man for themself, because people on the internet by and large just do not care about anyone else outside of their narrow friend circles.


There's a pretty big difference between not caring and going out of your way to ruin the experience of others. I don't particularly care about anyone outside my friend circle, other than in a fairly nebulous and relatively weak sense of community or shared humanity, but that doesn't mean I should antagonize and needle people outside said friend circle.


Often the second follows the first. Those people usually respond very poorly to similar treatment.
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