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level V skill requirements with a bonus per level: why?
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#221 - 2014-12-12 15:46:06 UTC
Ras Al-Gul wrote:
I totally get what your saying but this path leads to all ships having lvl 1 reqs.

that's the point, yes.

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Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2014-12-12 16:22:04 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
that's the point, yes.

And that is why it's a bad idea.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#223 - 2014-12-12 17:50:36 UTC
do you think it is a bad idea for reasons, or do you feel it is a bad idea and then think of reasons to support it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Quanah Comanche
#224 - 2014-12-12 19:54:03 UTC
This necro thread is full of win.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#225 - 2014-12-12 21:22:23 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
do you think it is a bad idea for reasons, or do you feel it is a bad idea and then think of reasons to support it.

For reasons I have already made very clear earlier in the thread.


BRAAAIIINNNNNSSSSS......
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#226 - 2014-12-12 21:48:53 UTC
Ishen Villone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2014-12-16 01:02:57 UTC
Disproportionately higher training time results in disproportionately higher benefits. :shrug:
Jeremy Kamira
#228 - 2014-12-25 20:54:28 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
^^logi is a great example.

I was about to train T2 logi, then realized it would've been pointless to do so before getting the higher-rank lvl Vs I'm still missing, such as cap mgmt, fuel conservation, remote reps and high speed maneuvering (they're all cap skills).

Problem is, all these lvl 5s add up and it'll be at least 2 months or so before I'll be more effective in a t2 logi than in a t1.

I honestly do not understand the reason for such a long wait. While I wait, not only I won't fly t2 logi, but my mates will have one less t2 logi to count on and my enemies will have one less 200+ mil ship to shoot at.

If I'm not benefiting from the long wait, my corpmates aren't benefiting from it and neither are my enemies, who the hell is? If nobody is benefiting, what's the purpose of these training times?

I'd take Rain's point a bit further and say lvl v are simply too damn long. Reducing the time (sp) by 50-70% would benefit everybody: still long enough to make choices meaningful, but without being just boring time sinks.

Only REAL problem is, older players would rage about it.

I have yet to read one single poster opposing shorter training times but at the same time saying or implying that he/she wouldn't take it personally if someone gets candy earlier/easier than they did.


The ****. If you get all your core skills to 4 then you will be stable in most standard t2 logi fits.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#229 - 2014-12-25 21:06:06 UTC
most T2 logi fits are weird, and involve undersized reps. However, that level IV fits are possible is another reason non-V skill logi should be allowed, for variation in performance.

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Tradew1nd
White Talon Holdings
#230 - 2014-12-28 10:33:07 UTC
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

this thread needs this link badly. Strawmen, loaded questions and composition/division EVERYWHERE.

fwiw, I am opposed to the removal of L5 skill requirements, but not because of personal issues, I'd still have my full bonuses and enjoy them (like I do recons V and logi V). my problem with it is that it is currently the biggest generator of artificial scarcity, and as soon as ISK becomes the major barrier of entry the level of demand for T2 stuff is going to make the market go ****-up in a hurry, and I cannot think of any situation where a drastic shortening of training time requirements wouldn't have that similar effect.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#231 - 2014-12-28 21:18:00 UTC
Hulk Miner
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#232 - 2014-12-29 11:00:33 UTC
I get the point you are trying to make about T2 ships requiring the racial hull skill to level 5 before stepping into a T2 ship. As many have mentioned it is about specialization. T2 hulls have a major upgrade in stats and resistances which should not be accessed straight away by a new player as this would skew the balance of the game.

Maybe if racial hull skills had a new modifier bonus linked to them so it would diminish the bonuses that T2 ships have bringing them more in line with a T1 hull. This could unlock more of the bonuses a T2 brings over the T1 hull when skill levels are trained.

Ships bonuses would be all over the place based on skill levels of pilots spicing it up for all.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#233 - 2015-01-22 10:38:45 UTC
I'm posting in this thread rather than starting a F&I, despite having yet another bad experience with skills. I tried to use the 20 days free training to get my nubby 2003 characters into either interceptors or covops, to light cynos. It looks like I won't make it, because this.

I've mentioned in a couple other places that I wouldn't start recommending EVE to people (I haven't, at all, so far. I wouldn't wish this experience on them). One thing that prevents me from having faith in CCP is the other example of what is very thoughtful, compared to what is in practice. Mastery level 1 is what I think a ship's minimum skills should look like. In contrast, I think the minimums we have right now are vapid, money-grubbing, and it is boring to boot.

If you're wondering why players burn out after four weeks, it might be the impossible time walls, and the truly arbitrary assignment of prerequisite skills. I haven't trained core skills in a while, so I was surprised when attempting to inject Interceptor and Covops, after having Caldari Frigate V gave me a message saying I needed Evasive Maneuvering V. Which told me I needed Navigation II.

If you think I'm dumping more ISK or an additional sub to train covops I or interceptors I, you're mistaken.

People ask me from time to time if I'd work for CCP. Doing what, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. I simply don't have faith in the company, so why would I. Not when such a big part of the gameplay is incredibly bad.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#234 - 2015-01-22 14:39:32 UTC
What you're asking is instant lvl 80 characters and that's not going to happen.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2015-01-22 14:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
oh my god.

Perhaps the magical role bonus should be split into a per-mastery level basis. Then there wouldn't be the real and perceived "poof magic" ship efficiency effect. Base hull bonuses could be split into, you know, per-base hull skill not just in name, but also in practice, by allowing the ship to be flown from skill level I to V, rather than requiring V up-front.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)