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EVE Forum Usage metrics....(UPDATED)

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Demolishar
United Aggression
#41 - 2014-12-25 13:55:43 UTC
Could you possibly do Character Bazaar, Sell Orders and Trades as well?
Emiko P'eng
#42 - 2014-12-25 14:30:07 UTC
Hehe!

A lot of the drop will be due to technology and attitudes moving on!

As a couple of youngsters have commented at work 'You still use forums, how old are you'

Then as a nephew of my boss commented after setting up his uncle's new laptop 'As Facebook is for old people I set up an account for you so you can keep in touch with your old friends' to which my boss said he used email for that and his nephew was aghast that email still existed Lol
Ursula Thrace
Dreamland Augmented Consortium
#43 - 2014-12-25 14:54:11 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
reddit...


methinks Noriko is on to something.

eve online original intro
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#44 - 2014-12-25 14:56:19 UTC
Ursula Thrace wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
reddit...


methinks Noriko is on to something.

Reddit as a whole is a shithole full of idiots.
It's mostly the griefers who whine about lack of "entertainment" and censorship here.

1+1=2.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Equinnox Dethahal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2014-12-25 15:57:25 UTC
I would like to see side by side statistics for locked threads as well.

Typically people use other means to post (3rd party) when the official forums become over moderated. Im curious if the decline in forum use coincides with an increase in locked threads.

Not suggesting that no threads should be locked, but ive seen a lot of threads that might not be 100% "by the books" on forums rules but were good threads that spawned interesting discussions.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#46 - 2014-12-25 16:57:08 UTC
So, took a little time and totaled up the post-counts from the table Chribba provided, excepting:

-2003
-the 4 or 5 insignificant, short-lived EVE CCG forums.
-Timecode Bazaar, which was massive in 2007-2009, but has largely been superceded by in-game PLEX usage.

Total Posts, Forum-wide, %Change on year
2004: 1,172,604
2005: 1,238,543 (+5.3%)
2006: 1,783,132 (+30.5%)
2007: 2,125,331 (+16.1%)
2008: 2,031,028 (-4.6%)
2009: 2,019,159 (-0.6%)
2010: 1,628,577 (-24.0%)
2011: 1,856,649 (+12.3%) <---(CCP Zymurgist fired)
2012: 1,689,159 (-10.0%)<--- (CCP Falcon, ISDs, New Forums introduced)
2013: 1,554,399 (-8.7%)
2014: 1,223,452 (-27.1%) !!!! WTF?

Or, if you prefer: Posts-per hour.
2004: 134
2005: 141
2006: 204
2007: 243
2008: 232
2009: 231
2010: 186
2011: 212
2012: 193
2013: 177
2014: 140

There can be no doubt - EVE-O usage is at its lowest point since 2005...and most of this collapse has occurred in the last two years, and it is way out of line with overall number of accounts.

Theorycrafting reasons for failure is fun, but ultimately one must grapple with the results. Community management must be held accountable. CCP must accept that poor decisions were made and consider making personnel changes that will, hopefully, revive this community. Otherwise, doubtless, these negative trends will continue.
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#47 - 2014-12-25 17:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sol Project
And still there is no proof that it was a bad thing.

No proof.



I get that forum activity is low and I understand that people go somewhere else ...
... but your whole point is trying to make it look like all the stupid, griefing assholes you are prepresenting ...
... do have anything valueable to say.

Just like you.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#48 - 2014-12-25 17:14:44 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:


Theorycrafting reasons for failure is fun, but ultimately one must grapple with the results. Community management must be held accountable. CCP must accept that poor decisions were made and consider making personnel changes that will, hopefully, revive this community. Otherwise, doubtless, these negative trends will continue.


LOL, there is no Community Management.

CCP's current "Community Manager" is not even a full-time position and the present one works for both CCP and Riot simultaneously.




☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#49 - 2014-12-25 17:29:35 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
CCP's current "Community Manager" is not even a full-time position and the present one works for both CCP and Riot simultaneously.
What?

Source?

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Alejandro Rebenga
#50 - 2014-12-25 17:35:33 UTC
Posting in a stealth moderation discussion thread..

lol posts per hour... kinda like looting a Nestor bpc and saying 'omg my isk/hr is over 1B'
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#51 - 2014-12-25 17:46:46 UTC
Alejandro Rebenga wrote:


lol posts per hour... kinda like looting a Nestor bpc and saying 'omg my isk/hr is over 1B'


Actually, no. Not like looting a Nestor BPC at all.

Simply total posts per year, divided by 365, then divided by another 24. Humans don't like thinking in terms of large numbers over long periods of time, so posts/hr are more manageable to some.

Your flawed example would be akin to selecting 2 or 3 hours of peak activity (say, immediately after a bad patch), and claiming it was representative of average activity over a longer period.
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#52 - 2014-12-25 17:55:30 UTC
Ignoring that posts/hr are of no value whatsoever.

You can come up with irrelevant data that proves nothing all the time,
but unless you somehow prove that it actually got worse ...

... you simply have nothing to say beyond your typical asshattery.


Ignore me all you want ... it won't help you.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#53 - 2014-12-26 01:23:42 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Alejandro Rebenga wrote:


lol posts per hour... kinda like looting a Nestor bpc and saying 'omg my isk/hr is over 1B'


Actually, no. Not like looting a Nestor BPC at all.

Simply total posts per year, divided by 365, then divided by another 24. Humans don't like thinking in terms of large numbers over long periods of time, so posts/hr are more manageable to some.

Your flawed example would be akin to selecting 2 or 3 hours of peak activity (say, immediately after a bad patch), and claiming it was representative of average activity over a longer period.





Less ****** issues threads, less ****** lag problems threads, less ****** (perceived) favouritism threads, less ****** BOB vs Goons threads, less ****** "omg now that nano is gone the game sucks" threads, etc etc etc.

Simply linking quality of the game, forums and whatnot to total post or post per hour is silly. There is zero correlation between quantity of posting and the quality of the game or how well it's doing activity wise.
Vapor Ventrillian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-12-26 01:35:58 UTC
-I think it might be Derude Sandstorm Cool

The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
Badel Jramodarr
#55 - 2014-12-26 05:08:31 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:


Was initially motivated by reading James 315's propoganda** blogpost on the current state of the forums

He painted a pretty desolate picture...

... could propose some constructive remedies

**FTFY
You (& J315) have made a problem out of what you think the numbers mean.
If this was a real scientific hypothosis you two would have been made a laughing stock.
You want to propose remedies to a problem that doesn't exist.
You sure you don't work for an advertising agency? That's their schtick.

I don't always have a signature; but when I do, it doesn't say anything at all

...I'm on a horse
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#56 - 2014-12-26 05:45:53 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:

Less ****** issues threads, less ****** lag problems threads, less ****** (perceived) favouritism threads, less ****** BOB vs Goons threads, less ****** "omg now that nano is gone the game sucks" threads, etc etc etc.

Simply linking quality of the game, forums and whatnot to total post or post per hour is silly. There is zero correlation between quantity of posting and the quality of the game or how well it's doing activity wise.


Less threads/posts of all kinds, actually. Far less. I see no evidence to suggest that 'only bad threads/posts' are gone and only good ones remain. Does that mean should forum participation drop another 25% - below even 2004 numbers - the forums are going to be better than ever? Only the most intelligent and well thought out threads will remain, such as those by one of Solstice Projects' alts? Roll Kind of like a sci-fi 'Best of' album by the Eagles? Yeah, I didn't think so. Placing your fingers in your ears and pretending a problem doesn't exist won't make it go away, even if you don't like the messenger.

One metric that could be considered - but I've no way of tabulating easily:

Thread view totals.
If these numbers have collapsed as well - it would indicate that the forums are failing on the readership end as well, and the silly arguments that 'only the bad posters are gone' could be completely discarded.
Wait, no that wouldn't work. Sol and pals will conveniently argue that only 'the bad forum readers' have gone away as well, no doubt. "We didn't want those forum readers anyway." Am I right?

Thread 'views' are clearly visible, collectable information - but I'm not going to sit and try to add them up. Perhaps Chribba has a tabulation of these numbers as well, or a CCP rep can chip in.

Also,
This thread isn't about the health of EVE itself. It appears the game itself is kind of in a slow, managed decline, with a subscription peak that occurred several years ago.

Whats striking, as mentioned earlier, is the rapid collapse in forum participation relative to gradual subscription declines.
Sturmwolke
#57 - 2014-12-26 08:12:42 UTC
Emiko P'eng wrote:

As a couple of youngsters have commented at work 'You still use forums, how old are you'

Then as a nephew of my boss commented after setting up his uncle's new laptop 'As Facebook is for old people I set up an account for you so you can keep in touch with your old friends' to which my boss said he used email for that and his nephew was aghast that email still existed Lol


Nope. Tell them they've been brainwashed to overconsume information - most of which are meaningless drivel, background noise and pointless reading.

The basis of communication is an exchange of ideas and there are various platforms for the different tasks.
Tweets (or equivalents) are more suited for quick one liners or paragraph, emails are necessary when you have multiple ideas to convey/exchange (e.g. business use).
Please tell your boss to send his nephew to a re-education camp to ponder his misplaced/short-sighted believe.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#58 - 2014-12-26 08:18:30 UTC
So 2010 before the current community team saw the largest absolute fall in posts.
And 2011 when the new community team was implemented actually saw a rise in posts.

With a trend of 6 of the last 7 years of the forum posting falling.

And you want to blame this on the CCP forum staff of the last two years?
Hmmm, Can I have some of what you are smoking.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#59 - 2014-12-26 09:11:30 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
So 2010 before the current community team saw the largest absolute fall in posts.
And 2011 when the new community team was implemented actually saw a rise in posts.

With a trend of 6 of the last 7 years of the forum posting falling.

And you want to blame this on the CCP forum staff of the last two years?
Hmmm, Can I have some of what you are smoking.


Not quite. CCP Zymurgist was fired in late 2011, late October if I recall.
A pretty significant portion of 2010's losses were clawed back that year, probably due to all the attention Incarna, monocles, and Space Barbies were getting.

The current manager CCP Falcon/ISD regime started enforcing sometime in mid-2012, and were not present at any point in 2011. My impression is that CCP Navigator was covering during that period, but my dates could be off slightly.

"Who was on watch" during early 2012 is debatable.
However CCP Falcon was clearly 'Captain of the Ship', and put his stamp on these forums during the entirely of 2013 and 2014.

The results - a drop in forum participation to the lowest since 2005.....are not debatable.

One more year of this substandard performance - and we will be well below 2004 numbers - when EVE was less than a year old and had a far smaller subscription base.

Its a scary thought, especially if you enjoyed the forums as I used to. Its hard to see how far they've fallen.
I mean, if all the 'bad posters' are supposedly gone, driven off by mods, thats the theory right?
Yet scroll down and witness the thread/post quality we are left with.....
Doesn't seem so exclusive now, does it?
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2014-12-26 16:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Noriko Mai wrote:
reddit...

well many warned that if the over-moderation of the forums would continue (back in 2011/12) , that the relevant conversations would simply migrate to a less restricted place. That is exactly what happened.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP