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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Nico Fruehinsfeld
Glorious Astronauts Society
#2821 - 2014-12-24 11:38:09 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

* Setup phase
- Log in all accounts (broadcast, still allowed)
- Fleet invite all accounts (single client)
- Accept fleet invite (broadcast, now banned, can use Round robin instead)
- Undock (broadcast, now banned, can use Round robin instead, can be replaced by logging miners off in space)
- Warp to target belt/anom (fleet warp, still allowed)
- Target initial set of rocks (broadcast, now banned, still relatively easy with VideoFX)
- Engage lasers (broadcast, now banned, can use Round robin instead)

* Mining Phase - this is where most time is spent
- Targeting new rocks (VideoFX, still allowed)
- Cycling Lasers (VideoFX, still allowed)
- Drag ore to Orca (Broadcast, now banned, still relatively easy with VideoFX)
- Drag ore to hauler (single client)
- Haul to station and come back (single client)

* Pack up phase
- Dock all ships (broadcast, now banned, can be replaced by logging miners off in space)


Nice! Everytime you say VideoFX means you have to do it manually, and that's all i want to hear.
It's a big difference between broadcasting all your toons to do something or manually dragging and dropping in sequence. Especially when it has to go fast.

For me it's in order like the guy in the fallowing video proceeded with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPJYSmLR-hY

What I don't like to see is the fallowing procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAbDPHnxLU4



Cheers
Nico
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2822 - 2014-12-24 11:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Nico Fruehinsfeld wrote:
Nice! Everytime you say VideoFX means you have to do it manually, and that's all i want to hear.
It's a big difference between broadcasting all your toons to do something or manually dragging and dropping in sequence. Especially when it has to go fast.

For me it's in order like the guy in the fallowing video proceeded with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPJYSmLR-hY

What I don't like to see is the fallowing procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAbDPHnxLU4
A good VideoFX setup will be as efficient as that second video. And no, it's not a big difference, because most ISBoxers don't use as much broadcasting as you think they do. Most already do what that first video does, just not with the windows all spread out like that. You think this change will actually change multiboxing, it really, really won't. The only people being disadvantaged are players with 100 accounts and disabled players.

Edit: Honestly, I get tired of arguing with players like you. The way you see it, you don't play that way, so nobody should be allowed to. You scream and cry and whine when you feel someone else's playstyle unfair and all because you're too incompetent to keep up with everyone else. In the end, people like you will never be happy, because there will always be the vast majority of the playerbase able to do more than you, faster than you and better than you. After January, you'll undoubtedly see nothing change and be back here complaining that there needs to be yet another ban, then another, and so on ad infinitum.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2823 - 2014-12-24 15:23:20 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2824 - 2014-12-24 16:18:13 UTC
While Lucas got most of it right in his summary of what an ISBoxer miner now does, he forgot to realize that Round Robin can be used for just about everything that VideoFX does, so even less will change.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2825 - 2014-12-24 18:35:35 UTC
Quote:
Fair
EVE

Pick one, and only one. A well established trader with hundreds of billions of ISK can run rings around the smaller traders trying to get into a certain market simply because he has more funds and can shave his margins razor thin and still turn more of a profit than the smaller guy. Shall we take away his ISK? Limit everyone to a certain number of updates per day?

If you don't believe what Lucas and I have been patiently attempting to explain, by all means, wait til Jan 1 rolls around. Just don't come posting on the forums saying "hurrdurr usomad" after we've spent over a hundred pages attempting to explain to people just like you that it won't change as much as you think it would.

You keep saying you don't compare ISBoxers to botters and in the next breath you make the comparison. You attempt to dishonestly compare some superhuman ISBoxer user to the equivalent of a BRAVE pilot, saying that because the ISBoxer player has been here longer and become more proficient with the game compared to the BRAVE pilot, and thus make fewer mistakes, that it's somehow a problem or that a player can't use his proficiency to the fullest extent that he can. Stop punishing those who are more experienced and more visible in order to pretend that you're leveling the playing field. It won't work.
Josef Djugashvilis
#2826 - 2014-12-25 07:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Lucas, you make a lot of assumptions based on little, if no evidence.

Of course some of what you say makes sense, it is blindingly obvious that CCP do ban players just because they can - a handful of GMs not looking into it quite enough - It is not as if CCP are running a business and want more players to subscribe so that they make more money, how dumb would that be?

I see that you use the usual 'carebear' insult to disparage anyone who does not conform you your way of thinking. If, say, I did use ISboxer to multi-mine to pay for my null-sec pvp gameplay, I am just as likely to complain about my 'competitors' as any so called hi-sec carebear, to remove the competition.

The part where you say that if no one knew about ISboxing it would not be an issue, is well below your usual standard of contrarian views. It is like saying that if nobody knew about botting or hacking the game, no one would complain. I have never met a botter or hacker, but, and I am going to be honest with you, I still disaprove of them because of, 'the idea of unfairness'

If, as ISboxers say, this change will have little impact on them, whay are so many of them threatening to rage quit with and take their zillion alts with them?

Oh, real life bit, I hope you have a really enjoyable Christmas holiday.

This is not a signature.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2827 - 2014-12-25 08:09:10 UTC
Just got a GM response to a support ticket, and it says binding a G-key to F1 through F8 is legal.

I was also referred to this post

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2828 - 2014-12-25 10:49:57 UTC
Orchid Fury wrote:
that is wrong. the eula was last revised in april 2012. usage of input broadcasting is and always was against the eula, but was tolerated. the only change is their tolerance. using broadcasting was always a grey area, and quite frankly isboxer users did infact know that very well.
Indeed it was, but it wasn't just tolerated, it was explicitly accepted. The rule always was that as long as 1 key did 1 action, it didn't matter how many clients it did it on, and that has now changed. But then, most ISboxer player's wouldn't even care that it's changing either, if CCP would actually do what they said they would and answer questions that have been put to them so they know where they stand.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#2829 - 2014-12-25 15:09:37 UTC
I only took a look here because Lucas left a comment on my blog. It's Christmas and you guys are still waging your little war? Shocked

Well, I hope you take (or took, depending on where you live) an hour or two to get away from the serious business of internet spaceships and enjoy the holiday.

Merry Christmas!

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2830 - 2014-12-25 17:28:04 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
I only took a look here because Lucas left a comment on my blog. It's Christmas and you guys are still waging your little war? Shocked

Well, I hope you take (or took, depending on where you live) an hour or two to get away from the serious business of internet spaceships and enjoy the holiday.

Merry Christmas!
Are you kidding? I've already managed to cook an entire Christmas dinner, watch a couple of films,play a few games with the fam and drink more alcohol that one should and I'm more ready for war than ever!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#2831 - 2014-12-26 02:04:11 UTC
I've stayed out of this until now;

CCP Falcon wrote:
l
TL:DR :

*We tried to nerf ISBoxing stealth bombers because it's pretty OP.
*We decided to nerf it by changing the cloaking mechanics (cloaked ships decloak eachother).
*The playerbase pointed out it was stupid and pretty much nerfed every cloaking ship in the game to the point of unbalancing them.
*We failed to come up with a viable solution for ISbomber rebalancing.
*We nerfed all TRUE multiboxers instead.

[/i]


Fixed one problem, nerfed your veteran/serious players again, will probably lose several hundred subscriptions over it with all the unsubbing multiboxer accounts...

Like everything else in eve, those who have not (the majority), complain about how those who have are OP.

NBD right?

I'm not mad about it, and i understand that CCP is making EVE easier to draw in more casual players. but it's not casual players that make the major content in your game. it's not casual players that made global gaming news in Asakai, Odamia, BR-. People play EVE because they are not the average. Remember that in your future changes please.


Disclaimer: Quote is re-written by myself, revolves around my interpretation of the OP...

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2832 - 2014-12-26 02:18:27 UTC
EVE is not l337. It's about as input-intensive as Starcraft... if you only control one unit. Farmville has more input.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2833 - 2014-12-26 02:40:14 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
EVE is not l337. It's about as input-intensive as Starcraft... if you only control one unit. Farmville has more input.


LOL. Have you seen some of the stuff that is pulled in the tournaments with "one unit"? As I recall, someone micro'd a single Stalker pretty damn effectively (with a lot of APM) and it nearly won him the game. Look at some of the solo frigate, dessy, and nano-cruiser videos out there. Heck, even the Bastionnades video has a fair amount of APM. I think one of my favorite videos was the solo 10mn AB Manticore taking out small gangs of BC and Cruisers. Just because dreadnaughts and supercaps don't warrant a lot of APM besides "F1 to siege, F2 to fire, assign drones", doesn't mean the rest of EVE doesn't as well. Even incursions, with non-asleep players, put out a decent amount of APM.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2834 - 2014-12-26 02:57:57 UTC
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2835 - 2014-12-26 03:18:15 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
You can play ten EVE clients at once.

Right, and after this change, we'll see the same miners in the belt, and the same people will run straight to CCP and complain.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2836 - 2014-12-26 03:43:27 UTC
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2837 - 2014-12-26 03:56:40 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
is that supposed to mean something

It's supposed to mean "change for the sake of change is bad".
It's supposed to mean (for lack of a better phrase) "don't count your chickens before they hatch".
It's supposed to mean "changes will have unexpected consequences".
It's supposed to mean "this was a **** change as has been explained time and time again for the past 150 pages with no valid or reasonable reasons, explanation, evidence, or discussions behind it, and was brought about by the EVE equivalent of the thought-police".

If you want to attempt to defend or present an argument for this change, please, let's hear it. Just don't shitpost and expect nothing to happen.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2838 - 2014-12-26 04:08:37 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
is that supposed to mean something

It's supposed to mean "change for the sake of change is bad".
It's supposed to mean (for lack of a better phrase) "don't count your chickens before they hatch".
It's supposed to mean "changes will have unexpected consequences".
It's supposed to mean "this was a **** change as has been explained time and time again for the past 150 pages with no valid or reasonable reasons, explanation, evidence, or discussions behind it, and was brought about by the EVE equivalent of the thought-police".

If you want to attempt to defend or present an argument for this change, please, let's hear it. Just don't shitpost and expect nothing to happen.

Scrubs will always complain, is what I was thinking. You're pointing to scrub behavior like it matters.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2839 - 2014-12-26 04:20:31 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Scrubs will always complain, is what I was thinking. You're pointing to scrub behavior like it matters.

That's funny. I could've sworn that I wasn't the one complaining about multiboxers or how others play the game....
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2840 - 2014-12-26 06:39:53 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Scrubs will always complain, is what I was thinking. You're pointing to scrub behavior like it matters.

That's funny. I could've sworn that I wasn't the one complaining about multiboxers or how others play the game....

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)