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Intergalactic Summit

 
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It's nearly the anniversary of the Empress's historic announcement

Author
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#21 - 2014-12-24 14:48:53 UTC
Slavery is eternal, and any so-called Empress who thinks otherwise has vacated her throne, if she ever legitimately held it in the first place.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2014-12-24 14:50:15 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Cute, but not quite. The end of slavery is the goal and my people are certainly the priority for me in this regard. However, pretending that the blatant act of hostility was anything but is rather dishonest or at the very least the bleating of a dullard. Nuance, ladies and gentlemen. It's a thing.


You could have made it clear that releasing hundreds of millions of slaves was a good thing, instead of making it plain that even giving you a large part of what you wanted was going to be painted as a hostile act.

I mean, I get why you're mad. Not only did she achieve more than the Minmatar freedom movement has achieved in decades with a single stroke of her pen, but she also demonstrated that the slaves you want freed (angry culturally Minmatar, slaves ready to integrate into the Republic) are not the majority - if they even exist anymore. If Jamyl's goal was to demonstrate that the Republic was in no way prepared for mass releases of slaves and that they didn't know what to do with them or even really want them then she succeeded.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#23 - 2014-12-24 15:12:08 UTC
I know you like to proclaim what other people want and fight for so you can tear it down, but the strawmen you're knocking down need to be better camouflaged, Tuulinen. The slaves I want freed are all of them. If there are even a single one of them that fits within the Tribes, I don't know. I almost did, but it's not where I belong and I'm fairly sure most certainly do not. There's a difference between ending slavery and tripling the Republic's population overnight.

Most slaves in the Empire, my people or theirs, do not belong anywhere else. No one contests that. It's where I was born, it's where my closest kin where born and where most of them live. People just want to live their life, and most of them prefer to live where they always have.

The thing is, out of all those countless billions, there are those who do not. There are those who belong elsewhere. There are those who yearn for different lives, in other places be they within the Empire or otherwise. To do this, they need to be free. If there is even one of my people who desires a life other than slavery, then every second they remain enslaved is a crime and a travesty that is unforgivable.

Of course, you are right in one thing. The release of the slaves was a good thing. Every slave becoming a free man or woman is a good thing. The reason I do not show gratitude is the intent and motivation behind that act, which was a calculated and shrewd act with the intent to do as much harm as possible to her enemies while garnering a staggering amount of PR points. It's beautifully done and I applaud the shrewdness, but I do not pretend to be grateful knowing why she did it. She achieved more harm to her enemies and huge gains for herself by releasing slaves that are free only in name, with their minds remaining enslaved by chains stronger than any physical ones.

I will have to admit it is vexing to see you pretend to be stupid enough not to see this, just so you can justify fighting for her.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#24 - 2014-12-24 15:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Diana Kim wrote:
Anja Suorsa wrote:
So, what is it exactly the Matari want from Amarr if it's not the return of their people?

My teacher was telling me, that the true desire of any slave is not to stop being a slave, but rather to become master and have their own slaves.


Both of those are wrong.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#25 - 2014-12-24 15:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Not really, no. I don't particularly care whether they want to stay in the Empire or go live elsewhere, it's up to the freed, but no one ever asked for the indoctrinated to be sent as zealous missionaries to do as much damage as they could. It was a shrewd move on her part, no doubt about that but there's no way even you can deny it was a blatant act of hostility.


If it was hostile it was no more hostile than the sending of missionaries. And missionaries at least are deliberately sent. Those former slaves that chose to move to the Republic, did so because they wanted to, on their own free will for whatever myriad reasons they may have had. The Emancipation had no mandate-to-move. In fact, if anyone is to be blamed then it would people like SOE and Interbus for providing free transport to the Republic, and Republic officials for offering free citizenship and housing arrangements. Both encouraged a lot more to move who otherwise wouldn't have.

But really, I don't care what it was. What I care about is the response from Republicans who demand freedom for slaves and then treat those freed slaves like dirt because they don't follow the culture the Republicans were hoping for. If Republicans want Amarr's slaves to be free, then they'll have to deal with the fact that most of them will be culturally Amarr, not Minmatar. If they don't like that, then they can stop asking for it.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#26 - 2014-12-24 16:13:12 UTC
Agreed. If they want to bring the huddled masses into the Republic, they have to deal with it as they ask. It is rather inconvenient for many of the blowhards spouting rhetoric to appeal to a populace, a trait that should not have been imported from the Federation I might add, when they get what they want and it turns out to be difficult to handle.

But let's not pretend these crazed zealots weren't released with the very specific goal in mind that was achieved. You know better than that, little kin.

The thing is, I am not a Republican. I am of my people. I don't care where they go or what they choose to do, once freed. It'd be up to them. Stay, leave, come back or whatever else. What is important is that they have the choice. If they wish to try out the Republic, then they should have that choice. If they wish to go turn their brains into mush in the Federation, then they should have that choice. If they wish to be free people of the Empire, then they should have that choice.

They do not have the choice.

This will not change if the Empire has their way.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#27 - 2014-12-24 17:10:28 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
The end of slavery is the goal and my people are certainly the priority for me in this regard.


The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#28 - 2014-12-24 17:19:39 UTC
How exactly can you tell when its purpose is served? There's always more people to indoctrinate right? I just don't see how it could come to an end.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#29 - 2014-12-24 17:24:03 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
A bunch of imperial lackey claptrap


Whatever Kernher. If your zombie empress had really wanted to do a good deed why the hell didn't she enter into discussions with the Republic to facilitate a orderly release and repatriation of those individuals? Instead she unilaterally "freed" (dumped) hundreds of millions of people with no thought given as to where they would go or how they would survive. If she truly cared she would have made them full imperial citizens and provided them a means to fully integrate into Amarrian society. The fact that she basically tossed them out onto the streets and suggested they board the next starship to Minmatar space tells me that Sarum was putting on a show and nothing more.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-12-24 17:24:17 UTC
Mitara Newelle wrote:
The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed.

Your timescale is unsuitable for the rest of us. Modify it, or cease complaining about Minmatar freedom fighters.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#31 - 2014-12-24 17:31:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed.

Your timescale is unsuitable for the rest of us. Modify it, or cease complaining about Minmatar freedom fighters.

Or you could stop being an impatient troublesome little brat, sign yourself over to a proper Holder who will show you The Way, and help us along, hm?

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#32 - 2014-12-24 17:32:10 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed.

Your timescale is unsuitable for the rest of us. Modify it, or cease complaining about Minmatar freedom fighters.

This isn't feasible, Pilot Ixiris. As you know, their timetable looks something like:

"When the entire galaxy has been enslaved for so long that over the course of generations their entire system of faith and culture has been consumed by and replaced with our own, then slavery will have served its purpose and no longer be needed. Amarr victor!"

There's not much in the way of substantial modification they could make to that, given the insistence on a Divine Imperative. They'd have to give up a large portion of who they are as a people to back off of that now.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#33 - 2014-12-24 17:32:43 UTC
Pilot Tuulinen I wonder how your supposed dispassionate outlook will survive when the imperials come for your people. You do realize that the "reclaiming" applies to the State as well? You may be partners of convenience for now but make no mistake that the Amarr view you Caldari the same as they view us Matari; as non-believers to be forcibly converted through the use of generational slavery, controlled with TCMCs and Vitoxin, as a culture not worthy of existing.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#34 - 2014-12-24 17:33:31 UTC
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
The end of slavery is also what Amarr seek, once it has served its purpose and is no longer needed.

Your timescale is unsuitable for the rest of us. Modify it, or cease complaining about Minmatar freedom fighters.

Or you could stop being an impatient troublesome little brat, sign yourself over to a proper Holder who will show you The Way, and help us along, hm?

Case in point.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-12-24 17:34:33 UTC
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Or you could stop being an impatient troublesome little brat, sign yourself over to a proper Holder who will show you The Way, and help us along, hm?

No.

Although superciious, sour-faced Amarrian prostitutes are, of course, always welcome to come and try to make me.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-12-24 17:38:12 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Pilot Tuulinen I wonder how your supposed dispassionate outlook will survive when the imperials come for your people. You do realize that the "reclaiming" applies to the State as well? You may be partners of convenience for now but make no mistake that the Amarr view you Caldari the same as they view us Matari; as non-believers to be forcibly converted through the use of generational slavery, controlled with TCMCs and Vitoxin, as a culture not worthy of existing.

Don't forget that the Empire's very first internal reaction upon the discovery of the Caldari State was to consider enslaving them.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#37 - 2014-12-24 17:41:31 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Or you could stop being an impatient troublesome little brat, sign yourself over to a proper Holder who will show you The Way, and help us along, hm?

No.

Although superciious, sour-faced Amarrian prostitutes are, of course, always welcome to come and try to make me.

Don't do it, Mitara. RR Domi trap.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage

Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#38 - 2014-12-24 17:44:08 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Don't forget that the Empire's very first internal reaction upon the discovery of the Caldari State was to consider enslaving them.


Provide a source for that comment.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#39 - 2014-12-24 17:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Anabella Rella wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
A bunch of imperial lackey claptrap


Whatever Kernher. If your zombie empress had really wanted to do a good deed why the hell didn't she enter into discussions with the Republic to facilitate a orderly release and repatriation of those individuals? Instead she unilaterally "freed" (dumped) hundreds of millions of people with no thought given as to where they would go or how they would survive. If she truly cared she would have made them full imperial citizens and provided them a means to fully integrate into Amarrian society. The fact that she basically tossed them out onto the streets and suggested they board the next starship to Minmatar space tells me that Sarum was putting on a show and nothing more.



They WERE made full Imperial citizens. What the hell do you think emancipation is? Every single slave emancipated by Her Imperial Majesty, or any other Holder, is from then on regarded as a citizen in proper standing with the Empire. My family and I received our citizenship once we were freed, as happens with any other emancipated slave. And they had plenty of means to integrate into Amarr society, and most did. It was only a comparative few that moved to the Republic.

And why exactly would she have needed to confer with the Republic over actions taken by the Imperial government towards Imperial citizens? Former slaves are not Republic citizens unless they choose to be. The release was a release of Imperial citizens. A "repatriation" is a return to a person's place of origin and citizenship. Guess what? For former slaves, that's the Empire, not the Republic. That some chose to move to the Republic was a decision made of their own initiative with their own new independence.

Again, the Emancipation had no mandate for former slaves to move to the Republic. Any that went there, went there of their own choice, because they wanted to emigrate. The Empire had no reason whatsoever to have to confer in any way with the Republic government, because the Republic government has no authority over Imperial citizens. The only point at which they become a concern for the Republic is when they move to the Republic.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-12-24 17:48:40 UTC
Havohej wrote:
Don't do it, Mitara. RR Domi trap.

Shhhhhh. It's meant to be a surprise.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.