These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Faction Warfare: How does Enemy Navy Aggression work?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Yai Koncardis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-24 05:53:31 UTC
If I enlist in say Minmatar and fly around Amarr space, are they going to spawn on me like CONCORD and send me straight to hell? If not, how does it work? I'm sure there are topics about this but what I found was out dated by 2 years+.

I'd be interested in fighting them if its possible. However if they spawn in great numbers, ain't nobody got time for that.
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#2 - 2014-12-24 06:37:51 UTC
Yes the opposing navy will engage you, you do have some time though. The higher the security status of the system the harder the npc response. It is possible to tank them in some systems.
Elena Morin'staal
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-12-24 11:22:46 UTC
AFAIK they don't point or scram you either.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#4 - 2014-12-24 15:12:43 UTC
they dont point you, but the amarr rats have 2 90% webs and still cant hit **** even if your sitting still.

they dont have mwds or they wont activate them. so all you have to do is warp to place on the same grid say 500km out, then warp to amarr undock, and they wont touch you for an hour.

they will respawn after an hour so you basically can sit on amarr undock uncontested because the navy is ******** and ccp refuses to admit its an exploit

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Paranoid Loyd
#5 - 2014-12-24 18:10:53 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
refuses to admit its an exploit
Maybe they want you to kill the WT instead of the NPCs.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#6 - 2014-12-24 20:09:31 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
they dont point you, but the amarr rats have 2 90% webs and still cant hit **** even if your sitting still.

they dont have mwds or they wont activate them. so all you have to do is warp to place on the same grid say 500km out, then warp to amarr undock, and they wont touch you for an hour.

they will respawn after an hour so you basically can sit on amarr undock uncontested because the navy is ******** and ccp refuses to admit its an exploit


Sounds like someone has had the fun of being station camped.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-12-24 20:23:31 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
they dont point you, but the amarr rats have 2 90% webs and still cant hit **** even if your sitting still.

they dont have mwds or they wont activate them. so all you have to do is warp to place on the same grid say 500km out, then warp to amarr undock, and they wont touch you for an hour.

they will respawn after an hour so you basically can sit on amarr undock uncontested because the navy is ******** and ccp refuses to admit its an exploit


Sounds like someone has had the fun of being station camped.

... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should base out of lowsec systems in the warzone.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#8 - 2014-12-25 03:29:52 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
they dont point you, but the amarr rats have 2 90% webs and still cant hit **** even if your sitting still.

they dont have mwds or they wont activate them. so all you have to do is warp to place on the same grid say 500km out, then warp to amarr undock, and they wont touch you for an hour.

they will respawn after an hour so you basically can sit on amarr undock uncontested because the navy is ******** and ccp refuses to admit its an exploit


Sounds like someone has had the fun of being station camped.

morelike i watched the exploits to attempt to get some people banned. i live in lowsec check the kb.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Abyss Azizora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-12-25 12:01:39 UTC
Yeah the navy npcs are a joke. I don't expect them to be concord or anything, but having them approach at least sleeper AI level of intelligence would be nice. (Not as strong as sleepers, but at least react like them.)
Dread Delgarth
Flames Of Chaos
Out of the Blue.
#10 - 2014-12-25 14:17:23 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
they dont point you, but the amarr rats have 2 90% webs and still cant hit **** even if your sitting still.

they dont have mwds or they wont activate them. so all you have to do is warp to place on the same grid say 500km out, then warp to amarr undock, and they wont touch you for an hour.

they will respawn after an hour so you basically can sit on amarr undock uncontested because the navy is ******** and ccp refuses to admit its an exploit


Sounds like someone has had the fun of being station camped.

morelike i watched the exploits to attempt to get some people banned. i live in lowsec check the kb.


Why do you believe it is an exploit and if you live in low sec anyway why are you so concerned about what happens in high sec?

Also would you consider it an exploit when mission runners shoot npc's in a specific order so as not to shoot the 'trigger' and thus start another spawn or is that just clever use of npc mechanics?
Varrinox
Shadows of the Empire
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#11 - 2014-12-26 00:08:41 UTC
People saying pocket saying navy are broken because he has been camped in station by a derpy station gamer....

FW NPC navy, like many things in FW, do need a look at to make them more relevant. Don't get me wrong they do some things but to a player that knows how to manipulate them and/or how much effect they can have on a ship they are somewhat pointless.

As for the exploit argument. One argument for mission triggers is that it allows for players to make a mistake and get a large amount of NPCs shooting them at once thus giving an opportunity for those whoa re unprepared to die. This is what eve is about. FW NPC navy being manipulated to sit 300k off you then slow boat towards you is clearly not working as intended, if it is then the guy who designed it clearly is a troll and should get a free account to something awful forums as reward.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#12 - 2014-12-26 15:37:50 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
they dont point you, but the amarr rats have 2 90% webs and still cant hit **** even if your sitting still.

they dont have mwds or they wont activate them. so all you have to do is warp to place on the same grid say 500km out, then warp to amarr undock, and they wont touch you for an hour.

they will respawn after an hour so you basically can sit on amarr undock uncontested because the navy is ******** and ccp refuses to admit its an exploit


Sounds like someone has had the fun of being station camped.

morelike i watched the exploits to attempt to get some people banned. i live in lowsec check the kb.


Your KB doesn't say anything about where you station spin. It just shows a pattern of where you roam. Get over yourself. If it was an exploit they would have fixed it years ago. Whine moar please.


To the OP, Faction Navy aggression is like being on the train listening to someone who is a complete moron, then realizing you can just move down to the next car, there you encounter an annoyance of a different type, then you move down to the next car, rinse and repeat; until finally the train stops in lowsec and everything is back to normal.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-12-29 16:07:46 UTC
Just don't go to Villore. Ever.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#14 - 2014-12-29 20:18:42 UTC
Avoiding navy by normal game play is never exploit.

Some methods used on past have been declared as exploit and most of those have been fixed.
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#15 - 2014-12-29 21:33:18 UTC
i would think a very relevant meta is the ability for FW targets to be somewhat vulnerable to attack in their own high sec space.

As it sits today you can attack the opposing faction in their high sec but it is at a significant disadvantage to the attacker. The disadvantage gets more and more the higher the security rating of the system is.

Buffing the navy so that war targets are essentially at zero risk of attack in their own high sec space would be a huge negative to some aspects of FW.
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
#16 - 2015-01-05 12:30:06 UTC
Well ... i see some guys complaining about factional police broken in hi sec.
Hi sec should be safe, factional police should scramble web and insta pop anything ... this is meaningless.

1. Factional police is not Concord. Why ... you should remember this is a legit war, kills and loss are legits. People fighting in hi sec are not criminals and don't have to be treated like this.

2. Broken ... what is the most broken ... lets speak about level 4 fw missions where npcs are soo broken they are not able to kill a single bomber ... and why npcs does not scramble in plexes?

3. Need some fixes:
- neutral remote ... should trigger an additionnal faction police npc spawn per neutral remote too
- it is possible to build a complete immune to faction police, it should not be possible



How does Enemy Navy Aggression work?
- 0.5 ss : easily tankable and avoidable ... dock dedock game is possible but everyone stupid enough to play dock dedock game should die anyway.

- 0.6 ss and superior: navy spawn is 2 bs and 2 fregates : dual web, dual damp, dual heavy neutra.

Damage and neutra amount increasing according to system ss, from about 300dps to 1000dps (may be more) and are not solo tankable (mean you will die if you stay too long whatever your fit, server crash or disconnect = pod)

Time reaction(Time before get shot : from 20s (0,5) down to 5s (1.0) approximately.

Enjoy
croakroach
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-01-11 17:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: croakroach
We have been doing this for a few years and there is lots of incorrect information in this thread.

I have had this information in my bio for a while which we collected from the NPC data in the static dump. This is the general effects of each system.

Security vs Militia NPC Damage and Effects
Sec     DPS Effects
0.5   -   138  2x Web
0.6   -   549  Web/1 Nuet
0.7   -   549  Web/1 Neut
0.8   -   969  Web/2 Neuts
0.9   -   969  Web/2 Neuts
1.0   -   969  Web/2 Neuts

Militia NPC Effects
frig     -75 % web
crus    -25% range -10% scan res
BS      25GJ/s neut  75km

Militia NPC Damage Rates
Amarr    66% EM        33% Thermal
Caldari   66% Kinetic    33% Thermal
Gallente  66% Kinetic    33% EM
Minmatar 33% Explosive  33% Thermal  16% EM  16% Kinetic


It is possible to tank the NPC's in ALL systems provided you have the ship and fit for it.

The NPCs will spawn for up to 10 enemies in system, beyond that and there are no more spawns.

Using neutrals on a FW player causes the neutral to go suspect _once the Fw player gets an aggression timer_ which is better than having an additional spawn on them IMHO.

The reaction time is random, i can be in a 0.5 system and see them spawn immediately at times. I can be in a 1.0 and not see them for 30 seconds. This may be broken.

The NPC's landing at 300km from a player is because the player had a bookmark at that distance and caused them to spawn there... Yes they will aggress and miss from that range, but they will shortly realize and respawn closer. This does give you a little more time to kill people though.

They do have MWD and move fairly quickly. The BS which are the damage dealers in 0.6+ are very slow; but they can neut from 75km.

Hope to see some more of you out there. o/



p.s.

Burtakus wrote:
i would think a very relevant meta is the ability for FW targets to be somewhat vulnerable to attack in their own high sec space.

As it sits today you can attack the opposing faction in their high sec but it is at a significant disadvantage to the attacker. The disadvantage gets more and more the higher the security rating of the system is.

Buffing the navy so that war targets are essentially at zero risk of attack in their own high sec space would be a huge negative to some aspects of FW.


Completely agree, they have _always_ been vulnerable in highsec. You sign up for PvP; expect PvP.