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Big Useless Ship : Titan

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#61 - 2014-12-22 06:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Id Tamta wrote:
Debuffing titans or sc's will not fix the nullsec problem, as you can see it did not fix it.


Still in the process but look at the difference

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2014/eveaccordingtonull.png

vs now

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

Northern Associates. (that are mostly in the South Lol ) will probably grow tired in a few months and won't be able to hold that much space thanks to these changes.

Personally, I hope they remove the fatigue bonus to haulers and freighters within 6 months.

Edit: This is interesting, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieT5r1c51aQ my favourite is around 3min 40sec Blink

Edit 2: More specifically

- One week before Phoebe - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/20141121.png

- Just one month later - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/20141221.png

Look at the right side of the map, look all over, big blocs are shrinking, small ones are springing up everywhere.

Fatigue is great.

All it needs is hauler and freighters to be nerfed for it to be perfect.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Ari Kelor
Frontier Explorations Inc.
#62 - 2014-12-22 07:20:07 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Id Tamta wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Id Tamta wrote:
Well my main point is titans are useless now, they should gain more role in game !

Titan bridges should cost less jump fatique, or none.

This is my point is it so hard to understand ?

So your giant epeen isn't so spectacular anymore? Buy/train a sitter, if you don't already have one, log off the titan, and try actually contributing to the game.

What you are experiencing is the Phoebe jump changes working as intended. Adapt, or unsub.


Thanks for the advice random guy in internet spaceships :)

And i own a titan for like 4 years i know how to use it . Please read the OTHER POST we are at :

WHY CCP WHY I HAVE TO JUMP 20 JUMPS IN A REGION I CONTROLED .

Titan jump fatique should be removed for in region jumps



Yes, but in region jumping negates the point of the fatigue nerfs in the first place...

What good is adding fatigue if you can jump from one side of the region to the other, use the gate into the new region, then jump to the other side of that region?

You're literally doing nothing but adding a speed bump...


The point of the jump and bridge changes is to shorten force projection capability.

As the system was, major alliances/coalitions were able to take control and maintain mass amounts of systems.
"What's that? Someone is attacking an outpost in a system 50 jumps away? Well lets just hot drop them, have an afternoon of fun, then we can jump right back here."
How dumb does that sound? Cause that's the way it was.


This the jump changes and all ships having fatigue, this means that you have to dedicate your fleet and/or capitals..
No longer will you be able to just jump back and forth freely.

Before, you sent capitals, and especially supers, where you wanted them at any given time.

Now, they're a strategic element of Eve. You put them where you're most likely going to NEED them, and you bring them to a fight only if you're certain their capabilities will be needed.

However, I do see an unintended downfall to CCP's intended changes.
Key systems that other alliances/coalitions would likely want to take will now become swarming with capital ships, to an insane amount.
With reduced force projection capabilities, this means increased security, thus less risks in null sec. Much less worrying about hot drops and capital blobs... Hell, you're not even gonna have to worry near as much about subcap blobs.

Now that I think about it a bit more, it does seem that CCP took a system that was broken in one way (force projection and capital blobs) and broke it in the opposite direction (reduced competition and increased security.)


While I agree that making changes to Titans isn't the best strategy to alleviate the issue, I do feel that there is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I get the feeling in a year from now that it's going to be impossible to take SOV from anyone, anywhere, anytime; Because there's likely going to be a blob of capitals just parked there just for security reasons.
The only way to break that is going to be jumping in your own capital blob, but since it will likely be a dedicated investment that will leave your Sov unprotected, I don't see anyone wanting to do something like this.....

Basically, it's going to be a case of stalemate...

I honestly can't think of anything to address this issue, and I don't think CCP factored this as a possibility...
Apart from something like the mothership in Starcraft II which can essentially block ships (in this case capitals) forom being able to attack/be attacked with the use of a temporal rift, but I don't know how broken that could end up being....
But again, this is another thing that can be use both offensively and defensively, so I still don't know why anyone would bother taking the risk.


Essentially all CCP has done is make Sov space more secure...
You fix one thing, you get another.....


One thing that you fail to factor in is the rise (or rebirth) of large mercenary alliances. Black Legion, and Pandemic Legion both have large supercapital fleets and are proficient in there use. Yet I don't see there name on the map. ISK will buy you a supercapital fleet with the pilots and support they need. Allowing feints and strategy to be used to manipulate targets to opening soft targets.

Fast moving harassment raids and Black ops fleets spearheaded by a shift to more player based intel (Combat Recon Changes) can swiftly cripple industrial and logistics operations. This is will be even more pronounced as the smaller the area an entity controls the more it will be vulnerable to these type of operations. Operations where capitals will be of little use.

I'm very interested in seeing if in the structure revamp anchorable bubbles will be nerfed and given a time limit like the rest of the combat anchorables that have recently come out. This will further decrease the passive safety that nullsec is enjoying, hopefully making it worthy of its' namesake.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-12-22 14:43:41 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


Edit 2: More specifically

- One week before Phoebe - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/20141121.png

- Just one month later - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/20141221.png

Look at the right side of the map, look all over, big blocs are shrinking, small ones are springing up everywhere.

Fatigue is great.

All it needs is hauler and freighters to be nerfed for it to be perfect.


NA. == NC. It's their renter alliance and it'll shrink due to PL not defending that part of space anymore and NC. being more towards south-west because "GRR GOONS".

What you're seeing popping up is RUSRUS coming back for the 3rd (4th?) time. As it stood before the changes, you had roughly 4 blocks. You still have roughly 4 blocks. Lowsec dwellers are part of some of the blocks due to shared objectives even though they don't share command structure. Only separate entity here is Black Legion which fights whatever they can go up against (Goos, RUSRUS, PL being latest) while being quite pro-NC.

Yes, there is space for grabs. No, it's not going to magically change hands and you will still have the large blocks controlling anything worth the time with horrible space being used by small entities who are forced to either blue up with the local block and act a as a meat shield or they will get run over within a few days.

Nerfing titans/supers would have an impact, but as it stands now, a well defended aprt of space will remain so unless you're willing to commit hundreds of supers to a fight.
Jit4 S1ut
Doomheim
#64 - 2014-12-22 14:48:03 UTC
Id Tamta, I feel your pain.

I was very close to achieving titan hood when Phobe landed. The changes in Phobe put me off greatly from owning one but I have decided to push on with it anyway as I was so close. My thinking behind it is that they are going to get a roll rebalance one day and that day they do they will become unbroken and no longer useless. (I hope.) Untill then sell yours or suck it up bro. Big smile The New Eden you now fly in is no longer the same one from before Phobe and from what I am seeing first hand living in null sec for very good reason.

If anything I just think the jump portal should maybe have a reduction in JF it applies? but then that would just move us back in the direction we are moving away from. It is hard to deal with power projection correctly, it needs redesigning. before titans where the tool for power projection it was just jump bridges.

I understand you feel useless but there is light at the end of the tunnel for titans and there place in the New Eden universe. you will just have to wait until we reach it.

Much Love
The ****.
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-12-22 15:11:02 UTC
Titans should get HP -75% and production cost -75%
No ability to fit cloak anymore and their agility nerfted by 80%

Hail Titan!
Shivanthar
#66 - 2014-12-22 15:33:43 UTC
Cassie Celestis wrote:

You would't hunt a fly with a bazooka would you? Yes even a big fly..Yes even if was a noob.. And solo.. And just sitting there..


LolLolLol
can't breathe!

I did something "relatively" similar in the past. It works! Lol I immediately need to get a titan right away Lol

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#67 - 2014-12-22 16:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Adrie Atticus wrote:

NA. == NC. It's their renter alliance and it'll shrink due to PL not defending that part of space anymore and NC. being more towards south-west because "GRR GOONS"..


Keep flipping between the two images, smaller ones spreading out, lots of little new colours popping up. This is only three weeks after Phoebe, it is going to get worse. People will feel they have an important fight they must do, explode their fatigue and then be benched for the next important bout.

Why did PL suddenly turn nomadic again?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#68 - 2014-12-23 00:02:16 UTC
I think titans should be able to spawn wormholes on demand.

Even better if they can weaponize them, hurling them across the battlefield, thereby randomly teleporting friend and foe alike to random parts of the cluster.



More seriously, there needs to be a big think on how to make large ships into proper flagships.

Part of that equation could be limiting the deployment longevity of smaller ships by limiting their cargo holds and ammo bays proportionally, and adding more charges to more modules. Perhaps squadmates on the same grid could share cargo directly through the unified interface, thereby allowing large ships and especially industrial ships to be of great benefit to smaller ones. The trolling options alone make it a good idea.(tm)

When I think of prodigiously proportioned ships like titans and the dauntless flanks of dreadnoughts, I am reminded of Megan Trainor. As she would say, "It's all about that base." Likewise, using these big battering rams should entail more elaborate fortresses on the field. The smaller ships should have plenty objectives, like burning the maidens and fornicating with the fields, even when they are still unable to get over some barricades, but knocking them down should simply mean new playgrounds.

Perhaps planetary orbits could be off limits when lunar orbits are controlled. Perhaps lunar orbit bases themselves could be considerably more expansive, allowing content for all classes of ships and all sizes of fleets, and being comprised of different "layers" of defense or a multitude of rooms. Like dioramas. Space dioramas.

The seemingly unspecialized natures of very large hulls lends, and the relative imperviousness they exhibit when in the company of their remote repping peers suggests the need to be able to take them down piecemeal, component by component. That, in turn would press the need for them to be surrounded by lesser ships to tend to the business of swatting away pesky flies.
Idriane
Yalaan-Timirgor Conglomerate
#69 - 2014-12-23 04:05:46 UTC
Id Tamta wrote:
Well my main point is titans are useless now, they should gain more role in game !

Titan bridges should cost less jump fatique, or none.

This is my point is it so hard to understand ?



Op can i have your titan? I would be happy to stream myself warping up and down my pipe until my death.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2014-12-23 06:08:04 UTC
Remove jump fatigue from people using the titan bridge.

Voila, Titan's are now slightly more useful.

100 billion isk of wtfness Titan's are...

Been around since the beginning.
Kashern Sinns
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-12-23 08:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kashern Sinns
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Remove jump fatigue from people using the titan bridge.

Voila, Titan's are now slightly more useful.

100 billion isk of wtfness Titan's are...


Titan in friendly Sov = Reduced Jump Fat.
Titan in Non-friendly Sov = Full Jump Fat.

How does that sound?

Its not really fair either and resolves the titan "role" argument but then we just have the problem of small factions not wanting to fight because they are scared if being dropped on etc etc.

The titan is a very hard ship to correctly balance.

Its an jump bridge.
Its a one shot cannon.
Its a mobile station.
Shivanthar
#72 - 2014-12-23 09:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Kashern Sinns wrote:

Its an jump bridge.


It's a jump bridge mushroom
^.^

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Id Tamta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-12-23 09:37:33 UTC
Idriane wrote:
Id Tamta wrote:
Well my main point is titans are useless now, they should gain more role in game !

Titan bridges should cost less jump fatique, or none.

This is my point is it so hard to understand ?



Op can i have your titan? I would be happy to stream myself warping up and down my pipe until my death.


Haha ! I can sell you one of mines for a nice discount if u can get it from somewhere in deep venal :)

Titans should have subcap damage, should be harder to tackle ( like immune to sabre bubbles ), HICS should be the only way to catch a titan.
Id Tamta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-12-23 09:40:19 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Remove jump fatigue from people using the titan bridge.

Voila, Titan's are now slightly more useful.

100 billion isk of wtfness Titan's are...


It will bring the power projection back so i dont think it will work. But titan bridges should give less fatique for a single bridge for the second one in a certain amount time should give much more. They just need to adjust the rates a little bit.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#75 - 2014-12-23 09:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
OP:

Titans were never meant to be cost-effective. They're huge spacedicks.

That is their purpose.

Suck it up or get rid of the Titan.
Id Tamta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-12-23 09:57:34 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
OP:

Titans were never meant to be cost-effective. They're a huge space****.

Suck it up or get rid of the Titan.


And thats because ?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#77 - 2014-12-23 09:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Id Tamta wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
OP:

Titans were never meant to be cost-effective. They're a huge space****.

Suck it up or get rid of the Titan.


And thats because ?


That's because CCP who designed them said as much about them when someone else complained about their lack of cost-effectiveness many years ago.

"A Titan was never meant to be cost-effective. It's a huge ****." - CCP Oveur

Why should your titan be genuinely useful, given what it takes to kill one?

"Because it was expensive" is not a valid response, nor is "because it's so big" or "because I spent so long training for it."

Pretend you know how game balance works (or ask someone who does) and tell me why your titan should be both difficult to kill without a fleet of caps and effective at anything other than bridging or being a target.
Id Tamta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-12-23 10:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Id Tamta
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Id Tamta wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
OP:

Titans were never meant to be cost-effective. They're a huge space****.

Suck it up or get rid of the Titan.


And thats because ?


That's because CCP who designed them said as much about them when someone else complained about their lack of cost-effectiveness many years ago.

"A Titan was never meant to be cost-effective. It's a huge ****." - CCP Oveur


Well than i should bump this topic even more because i like this game much more than CCP Oveur and think it should be more fun for both old and new players.

This is not a "I have a titan buff it please" topic, even it seems like it, i dont feel that way, if you think i do so thats your problem sooo as you say it "Suck it up"
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#79 - 2014-12-23 10:08:31 UTC
You should answer the rest of my post.
Id Tamta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-12-23 10:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Id Tamta
First of all you dont need a fleet of caps to kill a titan all you need is 20 talos some pilgrim. You can tackle a titan with a single HIC and titan could not fireback ? Is it really seem rational to you ?

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=24505843

Titans should be usefull because they are the biggest ships in eve online world, they need lots of work to hop in and i want to see more titans in action so we can kill more titans, have more fun. All titans are just sitting in their safe poses and dont login even. Is that what u want for eve online ? Old players not logging in new players cant enjoy the game ?

Even titans should be this useless or game breaking why not remove them ?

I watched the ultima online dying so i will talk for eve online