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Shrinking Null Blocs - acknowledge coalitions.

Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2014-12-21 20:01:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Under your plan how would we support tens of thousands of pilots with just one system when currently a single system can support at most 10 pilots at a time?


Not trying to herd 10 thousand into one system.
I know that one system that is being used quiet inefficiently can support about 80 online at a time.

Are you talking about 10 solo ratters taking their sweet time to clear a site?


No, Im talking about people using the best ratting ships in the game. 10 people is the max you can host in the very best truesec system. It is impossible to support 80 people let alone the thirty thousand in our empire on a single system.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#22 - 2014-12-21 23:41:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
No, Im talking about people using the best ratting ships in the game. 10 people is the max you can host in the very best truesec system. It is impossible to support 80 people let alone the thirty thousand in our empire on a single system.


I repeat.

I know it can support 80
I do not expect thousands confined to one system.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#23 - 2014-12-21 23:45:09 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
...wow.


... because being the same as now, where they can have only one alliance station per coalition in there would be so bad? Oh hang on, there would still be more stations with more blues .... wow! Roll


You fail to understand.

I'm talking about how you literally admit that you don't have a permanent solution, and just want iterative change after iterative change, all to spite people living in nullsec.

If you can't see what's wrong with that... then you are beyond redemption.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#24 - 2014-12-21 23:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

You fail to understand.

I'm talking about how you literally admit that you don't have a permanent solution, and just want iterative change after iterative change, all to spite people living in nullsec.

If you can't see what's wrong with that... then you are beyond redemption.


Is this more of your attempts to "bury" me like you have done to "better forumites" Oh, mighty forum warrior? RollBig smile

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I've buried better forumites than you, and to Falcon you won't even be a speed bump, even if you make it past Ezwal and Barstorlode.


I do not think there are any permanent solutions. That is why there is balancing and re-balancing. The game is in constant flux. If you think I am trying to spite null sec, you are sorely mistaken.

I live in null sec.

Now can you, stop following me around like a bad smell just because you couldn't keep my CSM thread locked? It looks rather sulky. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2014-12-22 04:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


I repeat.

I know it can support 80


Repeat it all you want, you are still wrong. Anyone who has done any kind of research into this subject can see that you cannot support 80 people in one system. The number is 10 per system before you start getting issues with overcrowding. Why do you think most null powerblocks want to move away from anoms being the primary way of making isk in sov null?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2014-12-22 04:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
baltec1 wrote:
Repeat it all you want, you are still wrong. Anyone who has done any kind of research into this subject can see that you cannot support 80 people in one system. The number is 10 per system


10 guys running solo and taking their sweet time.

Edit:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/those-anomaly-changes-in-full/

It comes down to rate. The quicker you clear sites the quicker you spawn more.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2014-12-22 04:55:39 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Repeat it all you want, you are still wrong. Anyone who has done any kind of research into this subject can see that you cannot support 80 people in one system. The number is 10 per system


10 guys running solo and taking their sweet time.


Wrong again.

We finish them so fast we have to wait for them to respawn. We have been over this time after time for years now with bears such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#28 - 2014-12-22 05:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
baltec1 wrote:
We finish them so fast we have to wait for them to respawn. We have been over this time after time for years now with bears such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about.


Don't know what you are doing wrong. There is a change in OP before this page of threads saying that there probably needs to be a change to it anyway.

*Shrugs*

Edit: Wait. Are you clearing absolutely every site? Might like worm holes that you need to leave two junk anomolies to spawn others faster.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-12-22 05:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We finish them so fast we have to wait for them to respawn. We have been over this time after time for years now with bears such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about.


Don't know what you are doing wrong. There is a change in OP before this page of threads saying that there probably needs to be a change to it anyway.

*Shrugs*

Edit: Wait. Are you clearing absolutely every site? Might like worm holes that you need to leave two junk anomolies to spawn others faster.


Doesn't work like that. There is a fixed number of spawns that respawn on a fixed time. A max upgraded, best truesec system will host 10 people before they start stepping on eachothers toes. Next step in this thread is someone will say "well then run plexes" to which the response is they will support at the very most 100 per region. Inevitably someone will say something about faction/officer spawns to which the response is that they are rare, hence why they cost what they do.

Long story short, if you don't own a personal carrier fleet for ratting and just have the one ratting character you are better off running SOE level 4 missions in high sec. Your plan can't work because it doesn't address the real issue for empire sprawl.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#30 - 2014-12-22 05:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Although I disagree with you, I shall quote you to the OP. I do agree that it needs an increase, especially if this thread's change were to be implemented.

Edit: It seems to be a running concern, shared by quite a few. So if the average need it improved quite drastically then there we have it.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2014-12-22 05:50:18 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Although I disagree with you, I shall quote you to the OP. I do agree that it needs an increase, especially if this thread's change were to be implemented.

Edit: It seems to be a running concern, shared by quite a few. So if the average need it improved quite drastically then there we have it.


Occupational sov is happening anyway, the last hurdle is to get CCP to change the primary way of earning isk in null so that we can deal with the need for empire sprawl.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-12-22 15:58:14 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I can agree on destruction but not easy destruction. This is EVE, with groups like Pandem Legion in them.

If there is something to fight for to regain there will be more good fights otherwise the next big thing from Titan ganks is Station ganks. Ugh

noe EASY destruction, just easier to destroy than capture, because these are afterall assets better kept alive for reuse, so that should be the difficult thing to do
Jenshae Chiroptera
#33 - 2014-12-22 16:09:35 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
noe EASY destruction, just easier to destroy than capture, because these are afterall assets better kept alive for reuse, so that should be the difficult thing to do


Makes sense in real world logic.
EVE players, however ... they won't try to keep the station, just blow it up to spite the last owners. It assumes that most of the players would want to keep SOV.
Consider how Pandemic grabbed a station and then put it into a four man corp to only the spite the previous owners.

Huge alliances that do not want any more SOV will just go along to smaller ones, destroy their station, enjoy the tears and leave again.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#34 - 2014-12-22 16:27:42 UTC
Destructible stations I am all so against.. Now don't get me wrong.. I live in null.. this has nothing to do with losing a station.. Or losing what I have inside of it... I am all for losing my station to an enemy.. ( I will fight to keep that bastard tho) But I do believe the current station META is broke and game breaking in my eyes.

If Pl/goons/provi/solar/MOA/RIM whoever suddenly Take a system over.. then Capture the station.. it should be like taking over someones Storage Facility.. They lost it.. the Contents get shifted over to the new owner... Not have this super secret Tight Locker combination that no one can break and they can diplo all their assets back.

If I blow up a POS... I get its contents on a random Scale.. I'm not blowing up a POS.. I am seizing control of a outpost from its owners. It's contents in my eyes should immediately become a new form of loot to the new Corp/alliance that took over it. It's prize for winning that fight. In my eyes... that will bring your Hell fights to SOV real quick especially over station systems. Instead of going.. we will just wait for the right time.. take it back and you will have your stuff back. If I kidnap a ship from someone because they ejected and ran away.. I get the contents.. if a alliance abandons its station because the forces it faced is to strong.. well then those contents should be the victors.. nevermind watching a new explosion scene added to the game. Give the loot to the victor.

As for anoming etc, it needs a major rework if VOLT wants its plan to go into place. I live in provi with you dudes. I rip through sites how Baltec1 mentions, often times I am waiting on sites because the other sites are either taken up or are in respawn timers. This can also happen in the surrounded areas where I live usually sending me to go do indy things or tool around in a hangar ship spinning and BSing on coms. That's not even with a Pimp fit ship.. thats just a t2 fit BS and good skills and knowing how to work rats.

If you are going to have more pilots come into the systems the spawn rates of anoms has to be at least tripled or more. We are not even capital ratting like the big boys do in deeper null due to "politics". Adding more anoms isn't the best of things either. That is just adding more of the same systems that exist today and adding more of the click repeat action we all suffer from now. The system in its whole needs a rework. Either tougher sites with Fatter rewards but push corporations to work together as groups in sites, similiar to wormholes, or more dynamic action hitting Nullsec areas. The cure isn't more of the same.. Its more of the NEW. Get more play out for the soloist, Get more dynamic sites out for the group building mechanics, Get the null AI into a tougher AI that us nullbears are going to be challenged with. Take that Burner AI or Incursion AI and drop it into a new form of sites and dump them all over Null, make the loot worth it, and put a decent randomizer on them so they are not just wiki'd overnight.

But these are changes that will take time.. and we have to wait to see if CCP goes Occupancy based SOV which in the minutes they seems against, or SOVless, which they seemed for.. I also am for. Ditch SOV all together and if you feel like moving.. just effing move. If you want a station Brawl for it and take that area over by force. But eff all those timers and mechanics.. get the corp/alliances/coalitions actually needing to work correctly to fill in all the time zone gaps and become more efficient at what they do.
This is EVE.. were not supposed to be easy mode. You want to keep it.. hold it.. work for it.. and defend it. If you stagnate..because you got comfortable.. then you deserve to lose it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#35 - 2014-12-22 16:36:26 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
No, Im talking about people using the best ratting ships in the game. 10 people is the max you can host in the very best truesec system. It is impossible to support 80 people let alone the thirty thousand in our empire on a single system.


I repeat.

I know it can support 80
I do not expect thousands confined to one system.




This is simply a lie. Nothing else to really say about it. It's demonstrably mathematically impossible even if yuo include mining upgrades.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#36 - 2014-12-22 16:41:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
No, Im talking about people using the best ratting ships in the game. 10 people is the max you can host in the very best truesec system. It is impossible to support 80 people let alone the thirty thousand in our empire on a single system.


I repeat.

I know it can support 80
I do not expect thousands confined to one system.




This is simply a lie. Nothing else to really say about it. It's demonstrably mathematically impossible even if yuo include mining upgrades.


how does Mining updates come into play with ratting.. He is talking about what the bulk of must nullseccers do.. which is rat.. me being and Industrialist even knows this. You will not find many at all PVPers willing to hop into a mining ship. Provi where we live is an entirely different mentality. Where he lives.. not gonna happen.. toss the mining upgrades out of the window. What he is speaking is true.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#37 - 2014-12-22 18:35:38 UTC
Added a provision about the enemy loot thing. A month should be enough time to try save your stuff. Multiple stations being held and fought for in a system means your wealth would be more distributed and less vulnerable.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#38 - 2015-02-04 03:03:32 UTC
Getting the impression that Null Sec is too safe in some places and maybe shrinking means more alliances can fit out in Null. Meaning more friction and more conflict.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#39 - 2015-02-04 03:32:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We finish them so fast we have to wait for them to respawn. We have been over this time after time for years now with bears such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about.


Translation:
Mah fleat of 23.000.000 titan makk site tuh fast, isboxer stoobittttthhhh.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Anthar Thebess
#40 - 2015-02-04 12:51:04 UTC
Big blocks will be as long as timers and wining them requires it.