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It is Past Time for the Republic to Sue for Peace

Author
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#121 - 2014-12-20 11:45:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I have never been of any illusion that the Amarr have renounced the idea of military conquest of the cluster - a brief glance at the rhetoric from the vast majority of their highest figures of authority attests to that. What I willingly concede that they are is unwilling to attempt that military conquest right now.


Correct. We haven't renounced it, but we are under obligation to uphold our treaties. We have no such obligation to towards nations that are not signatories of CONCORD, and there is always the future possibility of allowing current treaties to expire and to withdraw from CONCORD, but while we are a signatory of CONCORD we must keep to the policies we have signed.

I don't think there is anything dishonest with this state of affairs, and I would be surprised if other nations do not maintain similar stances.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#122 - 2014-12-20 11:51:40 UTC
The dishonesty comes when you pretend you're not invading and conducting slave raids. The evidence is rather overwhelming.
Blue spy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#123 - 2014-12-20 15:41:59 UTC
To my dearest Lord Admiral, Gaven Lok'ri of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris.

On behalf of all the criminal elements benefiting from this current state of affairs, I humbly thank you for this rousing speech, and your consistent efforts to inspire the next generation of Matari resistance fighters.

To be frank with you; myself and many associates aligned with the Angel Cartel have been concerned about the very real possibility for peace in New Eden. But then, the incident on Luminaire, and then you. It warms the cockles of my heart that at this pivotal juncture in history you choose to sing the uncompromising song of war.

I look forward to etching your words into the weapons I distribute, and the caches of drugs I ply so that I may inspire my customers, and look forward to their repeat custom.

Yours faithfully,

Theodore
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#124 - 2014-12-20 15:45:19 UTC
Or maybe the subcockles.
Miyamoto Takedi
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-12-20 16:33:42 UTC
Maybe the kidneys?
Maybe even the colon?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#126 - 2014-12-20 19:34:00 UTC
Miyamoto Takedi wrote:
Maybe the kidneys?
Maybe even the colon?


That guy appears to be roughly 90% colon.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2014-12-21 09:17:21 UTC
Confess, and the God will forgive.

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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#128 - 2014-12-21 18:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaven Lok'ri
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
The dishonesty comes when you pretend you're not invading and conducting slave raids. The evidence is rather overwhelming.


It remains official Imperial Policy that slave raids on CONCORD signatories are in fact illegal. If you have clear evidence of such raids, please notify the proper Amarrian authorities so that the perpetrators can be punished.

Of course, given the current state of war with the Republic, I don't know that the Empire would consider it protected by said treaties since the Republic actively chose to break them.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#129 - 2014-12-21 18:12:25 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
The dishonesty comes when you pretend you're not invading and conducting slave raids. The evidence is rather overwhelming.


It remains official Imperial Policy that slave raids on CONCORD signatories are in fact illegal. If you have clear evidence of such raids, please notify the proper Amarrian authorities so that the perpetrators can be punished.

Of course, given the current state of war with the Republic, I don't know that the Empire would consider it protected by said treaties since the Republic actively chose to break them.


I don't expect you to have a detailed answer on this question. Your obviously not one of the authorities you speak of, but maybe you have some light to shed on this. Is there any info on any of these groups actually being punished? What said punishment is? How many actually get brought to justice?
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#130 - 2014-12-21 18:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaven Lok'ri
I have only been involved in the capture of a few illegal slavers as my activities have been primarily aimed at counter-terrorist and counter-heretic activity over the years.

However, my understanding is that Illegal Slavers caught red handed should expect to become slaves themselves in short order. Within Amarrian borders the conviction rates are quite high on this issue. Amarrian society does not approve of such scum.

For foreign raids the problem is usually one of reporting. As you can see in this thread, the people making the claims of slave raids by Amarrians against their nation tend to be the sorts who have grudges already against Amarr. In many cases those people have *already* committed terrorist attacks upon the Empire. If a legitimate group found real evidence of Amarrian slavetaking in CONCORD space and brought that to the attention of the Amarrian Authorities, then the slavers in question would not have bright futures ahead of them.

Of course, it should also be noted that thanks to CONCORD pod pilot immunity rules, Pod Pilot illegal slavers seem to be unable to be processed accordingly. I consider this pod pilot immunity a serious mistake on the part of the CONCORD assembly.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#131 - 2014-12-21 18:40:10 UTC
Thanks for a much more detailed answer than I was expecting.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2014-12-21 19:14:39 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
As you can see in this thread, the people making the claims of slave raids by Amarrians against their nation tend to be the sorts who have grudges already against Amarr. In many cases those people have *already* committed terrorist attacks upon the Empire. If a legitimate group found real evidence of Amarrian slavetaking in CONCORD space and brought that to the attention of the Amarrian Authorities, then the slavers in question would not have bright futures ahead of them.

So, of course, any group finding "real evidence" of Amarrian slavetaking in CONCORD space wouldn't be considered a legitimate group. Thanks for demonstrating that you haven't changed a bit for the three-year sabatical you took.

Shut up, Lok'ri. Your words are still as empty as your soul.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#133 - 2014-12-21 19:22:54 UTC
I've already provided the combat records. They're quite irrefutable as these records are generated far beyond the control of the pilot, in this case me. If you claim they're not sanctioned, you have a significant problem on your hands where it'd seem a significant number of fairly large fleets are entirely ignoring rules of engagement, borders, treaties and what have you.

If this is the case, I'd be more ashamed of the complete lack of discipline and the significant amount of corruption and criminal intent in your navies than anything else. It would probably be a better strategy to simply admit to the fact that these are sanctioned fleets following orders, as it'd at least portray a minimum amount of control over your own forces.

I respect an honest enemy more than one that keeps up facades and lies to cover their barbaric practices, even to the point of portraying their very military as incompetent and criminal.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#134 - 2014-12-21 22:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaven Lok'ri
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
As you can see in this thread, the people making the claims of slave raids by Amarrians against their nation tend to be the sorts who have grudges already against Amarr. In many cases those people have *already* committed terrorist attacks upon the Empire. If a legitimate group found real evidence of Amarrian slavetaking in CONCORD space and brought that to the attention of the Amarrian Authorities, then the slavers in question would not have bright futures ahead of them.

So, of course, any group finding "real evidence" of Amarrian slavetaking in CONCORD space wouldn't be considered a legitimate group. .


This is baseless nonsense, as usual from this source.

Amarr values order and obedience and deals with people who break that order extremely harshly. If an anti-Caldari slave raid were to occur and the guilty were caught, I am absolutely sure that those guilty would find themselves wishing they had never been born. I doubt we would even bother to extradite the wretches.

The same would have held true with the Gallente and Matari in the period before Shakor's War.

Quote:
I've already provided the combat records. They're quite irrefutable as these records are generated far beyond the control of the pilot, in this case me. If you claim they're not sanctioned, you have a significant problem on your hands where it'd seem a significant number of fairly large fleets are entirely ignoring rules of engagement, borders, treaties and what have you


These reports have been appearing for years and the numbers do not match anything even remotely possible. I mean, a small dreadnought battle makes interstellar news, but yet we are supposed to believe that hundreds of battleships a day are invading into Matari space to their doom and nothing is being mentioned about it other than Pod pilot reports?

We are at war, anyways. Why would we bother hiding our attacks on the Matari? Any protection that we offered them was thrown away with Shakor's surprise. The better question is why would we throw away thousands of lives and ships for no purpose whatsoever?

Either someone has duped you for their own agenda or you are forging your data for personal reasons. Either way, It is quite certain that you were destroying targets that were not actually part of the Amarrian Navy.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#135 - 2014-12-22 00:30:05 UTC
The official records from CONCORD and your own Empire's standings towards me tends to disagree with that.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#136 - 2014-12-22 01:04:56 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
The official records from CONCORD and your own Empire's standings towards me tends to disagree with that.


I disagree. Small incursions are published as breaking news with cluster-shattering importance. I remember following Octopus Squadron to my demise in Gallente space - with a small fleet of ships compared to the numbers that these highsec warriors regularly bandy about.

Yet you ask us to believe that incursions a hundred times larger and more serious go on every day? Silent and unremarked?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#137 - 2014-12-22 01:11:29 UTC
I have no records of "every day", nor do I see news reports being made over a lot of things. I do have records of rather significantly sized invasion fleets. Believe what you will, it matters little to me. I know what I have personally fought and I know the reaction the Empire had to it.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#138 - 2014-12-22 01:24:45 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I have no records of "every day", nor do I see news reports being made over a lot of things. I do have records of rather significantly sized invasion fleets. Believe what you will, it matters little to me. I know what I have personally fought and I know the reaction the Empire had to it.


Well you go off in your corner and be incandescently furious about imaginary fleets, Mizhara. I'll be over with the rest of the cluster when you feel like growing up.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#139 - 2014-12-22 01:52:31 UTC
I'm actually more amused than anything else. The combat records are far beyond my capacity to forge, so I wonder what kind of conspiracy you guys think is happening in both CONCORD and the Empire to forge these things?

Besides, in the end it doesn't really matter. There is no contesting that the Empire holds my people. I have never needed any justification beyond that and the dishonesty and games of pretend from the Empire is merely a side-attraction that reinforces their place as enemies of the cluster.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#140 - 2014-12-22 06:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
There is no contesting that the Empire holds my people.

Except that they're not your people. Unless you have the paperwork to prove otherwise?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori