These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Anti-ganking Providence fit with analysis
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#21 - 2014-12-20 01:59:09 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
They will just kill you in 2 or 3 waves instead of 1. They don't care if it's a "potential trap" because they would just find that more fun. If you autopilot in this you will return to a new clone in station.


This is the crux of the issue. Even IF they didn't have the dps to gank you the first time you WILL be low HP at that point and any rushed in new gank fleet will finish the job because they know exactly what to expect. So your ploy will only work if you travel around with a CS all the time, like no one notices, AND you're not actually afk but just pretending to be. Lot of work for not much of a gain.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#22 - 2014-12-20 09:21:21 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Kudo's for thinking outside the box. You might make a post at Reddit or pop into the hauler channel if you're trying to spread your idea.

What are the EHP numbers for a Providence with reinforced bulkheads? Also, what is the cost for a HG Slave set? $100M is not much relative to the cost of the Providence, but the Slave set might really increase your cost exposure.

Finally, do you have any numbers for how much EHP Code typically ganks on Freighters? If it's like Skiff's and Orca's, they may only be going after the freighters that use expanded cargoholds and avoiding tanked freighters unless mega $$$ cargo.



For triple bulkhead i think Obelisk is the best with around 365k EHP across the board.

Triple bulk Provi is around 340k but faster than Obelisk.

HG Slave cost is pretty high, i think around 3b. So yeah it does add to the risk quite a bit.

CODE do gank about 90% flimsily fit freighters i believe, but generally if the cargo is worth it they'll go for the triple bulkhead ones as well.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#23 - 2014-12-20 09:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Gregor Parud wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
They will just kill you in 2 or 3 waves instead of 1. They don't care if it's a "potential trap" because they would just find that more fun. If you autopilot in this you will return to a new clone in station.


This is the crux of the issue. Even IF they didn't have the dps to gank you the first time you WILL be low HP at that point and any rushed in new gank fleet will finish the job because they know exactly what to expect. So your ploy will only work if you travel around with a CS all the time, like no one notices, AND you're not actually afk but just pretending to be. Lot of work for not much of a gain.


You are right however it makes ganking more expensive and also is there a better setup? With this build it seems that you basically get a more agile ship with more cargo space and EHP that is very close to the triple bulkhead setup in addition to all the benefits summarized.

I'm not saying this is ungankable obviously, just that it presents some potential deterrent.

Plus imagine if everyone starts flying these - then anti-ganking volunteers in Augorors can be something like 3x more effective.
Siegfried Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#24 - 2014-12-20 10:04:17 UTC
Dream five even if this fit was popular, for every well fit freighter there are 5 more anti tanked freighters who can be ganked.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#25 - 2014-12-20 10:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Dream Five wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
They will just kill you in 2 or 3 waves instead of 1. They don't care if it's a "potential trap" because they would just find that more fun. If you autopilot in this you will return to a new clone in station.


This is the crux of the issue. Even IF they didn't have the dps to gank you the first time you WILL be low HP at that point and any rushed in new gank fleet will finish the job because they know exactly what to expect. So your ploy will only work if you travel around with a CS all the time, like no one notices, AND you're not actually afk but just pretending to be. Lot of work for not much of a gain.


You are right however it makes ganking more expensive and also is there a better setup? With this build it seems that you basically get a more agile ship with more cargo space and EHP that is very close to the triple bulkhead setup in addition to all the benefits summarized.

I'm not saying this is ungankable obviously, just that it presents some potential deterrent.

Plus imagine if everyone starts flying these - then anti-ganking volunteers in Augorors can be something like 3x more effective.

I've heard someone argue the best fit is 3 x Cargohold Expanders. He made a compelling point. If you web your ship, your only risk is losing the webbing ship to a gank, leaving your freighter stranded. More cargohold means less jumps, lessening your time exposed in space, which goes furthest in mitigating your risk.

I would say your fit is fine for baiting and maybe something like mining in belts, but the web sling option is just better in every way when it comes to hauling.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#26 - 2014-12-20 10:13:16 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
They will just kill you in 2 or 3 waves instead of 1. They don't care if it's a "potential trap" because they would just find that more fun. If you autopilot in this you will return to a new clone in station.


This is the crux of the issue. Even IF they didn't have the dps to gank you the first time you WILL be low HP at that point and any rushed in new gank fleet will finish the job because they know exactly what to expect. So your ploy will only work if you travel around with a CS all the time, like no one notices, AND you're not actually afk but just pretending to be. Lot of work for not much of a gain.


You are right however it makes ganking more expensive and also is there a better setup? With this build it seems that you basically get a more agile ship with more cargo space and EHP that is very close to the triple bulkhead setup in addition to all the benefits summarized.

I'm not saying this is ungankable obviously, just that it presents some potential deterrent.

Plus imagine if everyone starts flying these - then anti-ganking volunteers in Augorors can be something like 3x more effective.

I've heard someone argue the best fit is 3 x Cargohold Expanders. He made a compelling point. If you web your ship, your only risk is losing the webbing ship to a gank, leaving your freighter stranded. More cargo means less jumps, which goes furthest in mitigating your risk.

I would say your fit is fine for baiting and maybe something like mining in belts, but the web sling option is just better in every way when it comes to hauling.



You definitely have a point but 170k is a bit too flimsy for my taste, considering that you will probably also load it up with more stuff further increasing your risk. Plus as i've been saying, if you autopilot in this fit they don't know if you are AFK or not and if it's a trap or not.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#27 - 2014-12-20 10:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Dream Five wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
They will just kill you in 2 or 3 waves instead of 1. They don't care if it's a "potential trap" because they would just find that more fun. If you autopilot in this you will return to a new clone in station.


This is the crux of the issue. Even IF they didn't have the dps to gank you the first time you WILL be low HP at that point and any rushed in new gank fleet will finish the job because they know exactly what to expect. So your ploy will only work if you travel around with a CS all the time, like no one notices, AND you're not actually afk but just pretending to be. Lot of work for not much of a gain.


You are right however it makes ganking more expensive and also is there a better setup? With this build it seems that you basically get a more agile ship with more cargo space and EHP that is very close to the triple bulkhead setup in addition to all the benefits summarized.

I'm not saying this is ungankable obviously, just that it presents some potential deterrent.

Plus imagine if everyone starts flying these - then anti-ganking volunteers in Augorors can be something like 3x more effective.

I've heard someone argue the best fit is 3 x Cargohold Expanders. He made a compelling point. If you web your ship, your only risk is losing the webbing ship to a gank, leaving your freighter stranded. More cargo means less jumps, which goes furthest in mitigating your risk.

I would say your fit is fine for baiting and maybe something like mining in belts, but the web sling option is just better in every way when it comes to hauling.



You definitely have a point but 170k is a bit too flimsy for my taste, considering that you will probably also load it up with more stuff further increasing your risk. Plus as i've been saying, if you autopilot in this fit they don't know if you are AFK or not and if it's a trap or not.

If we're talking autopilot it's a different story, and very inadvisable. They will assume you're AFK because it's exceedingly rare that anyone does setup such traps. They might let you by in favor of lighter targets, but at that point you're just rolling dice. Why risk your goods like this when you can just pay a courier to deliver it for pocket change?

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#28 - 2014-12-20 10:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


This is the crux of the issue. Even IF they didn't have the dps to gank you the first time you WILL be low HP at that point and any rushed in new gank fleet will finish the job because they know exactly what to expect. So your ploy will only work if you travel around with a CS all the time, like no one notices, AND you're not actually afk but just pretending to be. Lot of work for not much of a gain.


You are right however it makes ganking more expensive and also is there a better setup? With this build it seems that you basically get a more agile ship with more cargo space and EHP that is very close to the triple bulkhead setup in addition to all the benefits summarized.

I'm not saying this is ungankable obviously, just that it presents some potential deterrent.

Plus imagine if everyone starts flying these - then anti-ganking volunteers in Augorors can be something like 3x more effective.

I've heard someone argue the best fit is 3 x Cargohold Expanders. He made a compelling point. If you web your ship, your only risk is losing the webbing ship to a gank, leaving your freighter stranded. More cargo means less jumps, which goes furthest in mitigating your risk.

I would say your fit is fine for baiting and maybe something like mining in belts, but the web sling option is just better in every way when it comes to hauling.



You definitely have a point but 170k is a bit too flimsy for my taste, considering that you will probably also load it up with more stuff further increasing your risk. Plus as i've been saying, if you autopilot in this fit they don't know if you are AFK or not and if it's a trap or not.

If we're talking autopilot it's a different story, and very inadvisable. They will assume you're AFK because it's exceedingly rare that anyone does setup such traps. They might let you by in favor of lighter targets, but at that point you're just rolling dice. Why risk your goods like this when you can just pay a courier to deliver it for pocket change?



Nobody is stopping us from making these traps exceedingly common :)

CODE always wins? Not necessarily :)

Wrt courier - this is possibly a fit for couriers :)
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#29 - 2014-12-20 12:18:32 UTC
If you're autopiloting, you're probably not going to have links unless you have alts setup in every system along the path..
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#30 - 2014-12-21 02:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Dream Five wrote:
Nobody is stopping us from making these traps exceedingly common :)

So we're talking about setting up these traps often enough so that when it's not a trap, they avoid ganking the pilot? It seems like a lot of work for nothing, since you're still better off using a courier when actually hauling.

Quote:
CODE always wins? Not necessarily :)

I knew I remembered your name from somewhere.

Quote:
Wrt courier - this is possibly a fit for couriers :)

It's for anyone looking to have their things hauled while AFK or without the hassle of doing it one's self. The pilots autopiloting their freighters while AFK are just ignorant of their options. Which brings me back to point 1. If they are "smart" enough to fit their ship to try and fool gankers or make it easier on anti-gankers, they are smart enough to just hire PushX.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#31 - 2015-01-06 08:52:02 UTC
Added a Note - a cloaky guardian with 2 Medium Targeting Systems Stabilizer II s can decloak in 7.3s, seems like a decent potential trap in 0.5.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#32 - 2015-01-06 15:12:57 UTC
I like that you're thinking about this. I feel that there are far more effective techniques available (i.e. webs, not autopiloting), but they've already been addressed. Assuming that you want to stay on this course (I wouldn't if I were you), I have a question for you:

Why cloak the Guardian? Slap an AB on it, orbit your freighter at range, and have reps landing on it before any gank squad shows up. Your Guardian won't lose any time to decloaking/locking, will be relatively hard to gank (hard to get a warp-in for blasters, hard to hit with arties), and instead of suggesting that your freighter may be a harder target it will announce that your freighter will be a harder target.

While this may simply drive them to try harder, it may also deter them because of the extra effort involved.

Maybe.



Keep in mind, a webbing ship will always be more effective than any amount of logistics. The best way to survive an attack is to not be there for it.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Previous page12