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Combat Recons undetectable by d-scan in Proteus

Author
Xtrah
Overload This
#1 - 2014-12-18 15:30:23 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5318916#post5318916

"Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners"

I fear this will drastically change ganks in low-class wormhole space... With the added HAC resists, fleets of recons will probably be a thing too, that might even match todays Tech 3 setups...

Thoughts?
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#2 - 2014-12-18 15:34:14 UTC
Holy sh*t, the Curse is back!

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#3 - 2014-12-18 15:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Braxus Deninard
I see nothing wrong with more danger in w-space.

If anything it shakes up the typical heavy armor t3 fights more with some room for recons in the comps.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#4 - 2014-12-18 15:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
Xtrah wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5318916#post5318916

"Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners"

I fear this will drastically change ganks in low-class wormhole space... With the added HAC resists, fleets of recons will probably be a thing too, that might even match todays Tech 3 setups...

Thoughts?


All the people in my statics are dead now.

Seriously though, this is retardäd.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#5 - 2014-12-18 15:44:28 UTC
Braxus Deninard wrote:
I see nothing wrong with more danger in w-space.

If anything it shakes up the typical heavy armor t3 fights more with some room for recons in the comps.


t2 resists profile are great.

But undetectable recons are a game changer for all the places where holes are not rolled before engaging in PVE, i.e. all the C1 holes, and a vast majority of C2-C4 systems.

In the long run this would probably prove to be bad from a hunter's perspective too, since the prey won't show any longer.
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#6 - 2014-12-18 15:53:48 UTC
The hunters already don't show for the most part until it's too late, site runners are going to get scouted with a covops ship which will appear on dscan for a split second when they jump in. If you're running sites in a hole and don't roll the connections then you'd have a scout on each open hole listening for activations.

It will make very little change when it comes to catching site runners unless the site runners are lazy and not watching connections.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#7 - 2014-12-18 16:24:22 UTC
Ab'del Abu wrote:
Braxus Deninard wrote:
I see nothing wrong with more danger in w-space.

If anything it shakes up the typical heavy armor t3 fights more with some room for recons in the comps.


t2 resists profile are great.

But undetectable recons are a game changer for all the places where holes are not rolled before engaging in PVE, i.e. all the C1 holes, and a vast majority of C2-C4 systems.

In the long run this would probably prove to be bad from a hunter's perspective too, since the prey won't show any longer.



This change makes no difference. Before it was just you have a cloaky tackle proteus now at least theres some other ships being used, cheaper and easier to kill ships as well.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#8 - 2014-12-18 16:28:05 UTC
Braxus Deninard wrote:
The hunters already don't show for the most part until it's too late, site runners are going to get scouted with a covops ship which will appear on dscan for a split second when they jump in. If you're running sites in a hole and don't roll the connections then you'd have a scout on each open hole listening for activations.

It will make very little change when it comes to catching site runners unless the site runners are lazy and not watching connections.


People daytripping into a c3 probably don't bring a handful of scouts to watch all connections and share their measly 100m isk/hour with.

As for scouts showing up on dscan: if the recon jumps with the scout together or shortly after nothing will show on dscan before the recon lands in the site
Alundil
Rolled Out
#9 - 2014-12-18 16:35:33 UTC
I think that these changes are going to be really interesting. And I don't think it'll result in the "death of low class" holes. It will mean that people will need to be more prepared (and paranoid).

I'm right behind you

Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#10 - 2014-12-18 16:41:54 UTC
The Lachesis is really the one to fear here. With a high scan res setup they can land in your site and point you really fast. That might be mitigated by a mobile depot and some warp core stabs, if they land solo for tackle. If you are 60k+ off the site entrance, aligned, and watching the overview as diligently as d-scan, you can probably avoid a Curse/Huginn/Rook if they don't have a perfect warp-in on you.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#11 - 2014-12-18 16:57:24 UTC
I'm excited, great changes.

Bring on the "This will kill [insert area of game]"!!
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#12 - 2014-12-18 17:07:41 UTC
I need to put up a new blog post but I keep getting distracted by that thread. If I let it get too far ahead it will take days to catch up!

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2014-12-18 17:09:29 UTC
I don't think any of them really got a DPS buff, so it shouldn't be too bad. Like that other guy said, Lach could be scary, but I wouldn't be too worried about the others. I don't this change will bring a rise to solo recon pilots, but they may be good for grabbing initial point since they don't appear on d-scan and don't have the decloak lock delay.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#14 - 2014-12-18 17:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
Glyndi wrote:
I'm excited, great changes.

Bring on the "This will kill [insert area of game]"!!


Maeh, it will not really kill anything. But a number of things would be thrown out of (the current) balance.

- you would be handed yet another very powerful tool for killing low-class inhabitants doing their PvE
- shitttty "cloaky Falcon" gameplay in solo pvp would be complemented by any type of offgrid combat recon
- factional warfare becomes even more stupid

A dscan immune ship with highly potent ewar, dps and actual tank for 200m is just too powerful.

As for wh-space implications I'm just afraid to run out of targets X
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-12-18 18:31:22 UTC
Ab'del Abu wrote:
- shitttty "cloaky Falcon" gameplay in solo pvp would be complemented by any type of offgrid combat recon


You could've used any type of cloaky recon before...

This update has literally turned combat recons into PA

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#16 - 2014-12-18 18:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
I'm not sure it will change much in wormholes other than the fact we will see more Combat Recons used now.

Combat recons can't warped cloaked which means they will be visible the second they come onto grid. So now, grid positioning will be everything. Most wormhole groups used a cloaky to bump them while they grab point and warp a fleet anyway.

There is a really easy counter to this change however that only the bigger / older groups tend to use, combat probes. I'm suprised with the smaller groups that don't have them out while running sites.

What I do expect to see is them being used to run sites in low end holes so people don't know sites are being run expect by seeing wrecks.

Wormholers are used to being ready for cloaky ships to attack and they can't be seen while they're warping around cloaked. I don't see it affecting us much.

Nullsec ratters however; I forsee them having am issue with this Big smile

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

Orlacc
#17 - 2014-12-18 18:56:12 UTC
Didn't see this coming.....lots of implications to mull over.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#18 - 2014-12-18 18:56:38 UTC
Bloody hell. Defensive combat probes! How do they work!?!

The sky isn't falling.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2014-12-18 19:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Jester
Seraph Essael wrote:
What I do expect to see is them being used to run sites in low end holes so people don't know sites are being run expect by seeing wrecks.


That dank recon DPS

These could be fun in Thera. Just sit off-grid and jump on ****.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-12-18 21:10:16 UTC
While i think the changes are fine, i think they have the same problem as the HAC changes: Theyre not enough.
Not being Dscannable is cute and all but id rather they were actually buffed more.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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