Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No, you don't have any clue about this game, risk & rewards, you're spouting your own misconceptions and seem to believe in them fanatically.

There is nothing in EVE that rewards players for being located in some system over another.

The isk thing is balanced around ship loss/costs. The pods have zero balance around risk reward.

It's not about me, I have sufficient skillpoints it matters very little. I still JC about the place but it's an option, I dont feel obligated. I have sympathy with newbies but I'm not a director, they're not "my" doctrines, I'm just echoing sentiments they've discussed on fleets :)

Basically I feel that the higher risk of the system you live in should provide better rewards in every conceivable way, otherwise what's the point of the added risk.

Null only sucks if you live in the doughnut ;)

How would you feel if empire had the best everything? Because it shouldn't have the best anything. Such is the price of the added safety.

I think overall (and not even this thread in particular - multi billionair wh guys irk me the most) there has been a rise in complaints about what folks feel they can't reasonably do in this or that set of implants. I always try to point it out this way: Implants are extra. Everyone in eve has no implants until they purchase them and put them in. HAVING them adds to your abilities and conversely NOT HAVING them DOES NOT take anything away from your abilities.

The fact that pilot X has them and you do not doesn't = a net loss for you. Guys in empty pods aren't losing SP per hour they are choosing to not invest in a bonus system. There seems sometimes to be a perception issue on this.

My biggest headache is when WH guys complain that they can't switch from their high grade slaves to their high grade talismans without taking a trip to empire. Their justification is that you can't correctly fly a proteus w/ out high grade slaves and only an idiot would fly a bhaalgorn without his high grade talisman set. I have seen this argument in the past. You may think it's a crazy argument (I would agree), but it's the same argument as 'it doesn't pay to wear +2 in null because you get podded all the time.' It's the same argument except that one guy is a L337 pampered wh queen w/ an overgrown sense of entitlement and the other is a new guy just starting out and trying to make ends meet. Both guys have options that don't include changing 'obviously flawed' (thier opinion) training, clone jumping and/or implant systems.

I like the current system. You have to think ahead, make a plan, make choices and then live with them. Remaps give you a lot of flexibility. Clone jumping is up to what.... 10 clones now? Implant cost vs. chance of getting podded.... I would really hate to take that out of the pilots equation.

I always thought that remaps were one of the most frustrating mechanics in Eve. Especially as a new player, you can either choose to train the broad spectrum of skills that would actually be useful to you right now and severely gimp your overall training speed, or you can optimize for training speed and have a very lopsided skill plan with many skills severely underdeveloped for quite some time. It's basically a choice between plague and cholera.

Worst case scenario is if you do a very specialized remap but then realize after a month or two that you would rather do something completely different. That sucks the fun right out of it.

As many others have stated in this thread, I too would be thrilled if all learning modifiers were removed and learning took place at a flat 2700 SP/h. At the very least, please get rid of remaps though (and buff SP/h to compensate), for it is just a bad and frustrating game mechanic.

More accurately:
"TL;DR: It used to be even worse so it doesn't matter that it is still a bad mechanic. Plus, I had to suffer through it so I would hate it, if new players would not have to deal with any of that."

If you took a step back and looked at it from a game design perspective, it would become very apparent to you that remapping with its 1 year cooldown is just a bad mechanic because it disincentivizes exploring and trying out new things. That, of course, would require you to focus less on insulting people in order to inflate your own sense of maturity.

holy crap that OP sent tingles down my spine, and you had me at "meaningless and stupid."

I support your vigor as hard as I freaking can, Malcanis, holy **** I liked reading that post.

I agree with the idea, too. BUT MOSTLY THE LANGUAGE.

I think CCP is starting to wake up to the fact that subscription shouldn't be messed with. I had deep resentment for my paid-for SP being put at risk by playing. The issue with the current system involving training rates and implants is arguably, some people get less for their sub money than others.

I'm still coming down from the rush of SP loss being removed, but this was the next item on my gripe list.

Personally, I will do whatever it takes to maintain an optimal training rate within reason. That's usually +4 implants in PVP, and +5 sets for characters who are dormant or in capitals. I ran my C5 wormhole gang in this configuration of +5s and +4s. I have the lossmails to prove it, hopefully it's ok for me to post my own lossmails.

lighting a cyno with +4 sets
wormhole PVP with +4 sets and one character in a +5
that guardian loss is burned in my memory. podboating out of a bubble in an engagement with SSC was a little dicey :-)
returning from an op in burst logi with +4s
triple boxing on a welp roam with +4s and +3s (already replaced). The other pods show as empty because I unplugged everything before challenging my aggressor to a duel (they wouldn't pod express me otherwise, which was disappointing).

It's a good point that beginning players are at disadvantage in accumulating SP. With 100 mil SP and all my supports done, I can use slots 1-5 for the benefit of SP rate rather than an improvement to my ship, but younger characters without all supports to V don't have the same luxury.

I think there's a quality of gameplay improvement to be made in doing away with attribute implants, but not attributes themselves. I'm OK with the idea of strategically remapping attributes even though it may suck, because we all suck together, regardless of character age. The main reason I can think of for keeping training implants in place, however, is the industry and activity involved in moving implants to market.

The thing about medical clone grades that made it an easier request was nobody saw med clone ISK other than CCP, and it simply vanished from the game. So I think a viable plan for removing training implants involves a good way to replace that gameplay for those players involved in implant markets.

I know virtually nothing about industry, and I have no idea how that could be accomplished.


I forgot about that option. This makes 100% sense to me. with jump fatigue being a thing, if you're foregoing the travel benefit of jump cloning, why not. It's selective, strategic risk without an intense timer attached to it.

Giving up 18-24 hours every time you want to PVP smarter is a bit much.

At first you might think this would reduce demand for training implants, but I think it will cause the opposite: more players will choose to buy training implants, way more. and higher grades, too.

There's also risk involved in moving the implants to that station in the first place. Whether it was on your part (in your head), or the person shipping them to sell, risk was had by someone.

multiple jump clones in the same station is a huge improvement, too. I hope it's painfully obvious why the number of jump clones per station is clunky, and makes it impossible to have even that much flexibility in one system in null (with one-station / outpost systems)

SP accumulation is a dormant activity, or a station activity (if you don't mind me calling it that), that is affecting pew activity. let us disconnect the two.

disadvantaged because they don't have the same luxury of foregoing ship improving implants for training implants.

Not just in null, but anywhere/any time a player is in space, really.

Saying you need 10 mil+sp to do anything is not true, I was plexing after my first month with the skills I had. I'm only just getting some core skills to V now as they simply weren't necessary. It depends on what you choose to do in eve and the above list at least looks predominantly slanted towards PvP and null space. There's much more to eve than that for a player to enjoy.

As for 60 mil being rewuired I'm only just at 25 mil and really haven't noticed a problem doing the things I choose to do. I can't comment on doctrines of course never having flown in one but if its the needs of a fleet and the player wants in then it becomes their target.There is no reason why their needs should have more weight than those who are hppy with the current system though.

LOL, I never said any of these were requirements for anything. They are rough SP milestones where things tend to change from one phase to the next. To be clear - Nothing will noticably happen in the game or to your character when you cross from 999999 ti 1 mil SP. It's just a point I picked where I feel folks go from training what they need (defensively) and start to have more choices.

I know a guy that has 4 accounts, has been playing for maybe 2 years, has crap skills (due to age) and is a blast to fly with. He's been living in a C5 wh since his 3rd month or so in game. I think he occaisionally FCs the viper fleet thing out of amarr. He wrote the WH mapping program I use. If you look up YOLO in evelopedia there's a picture of him. He's understood the game and how to play it pretty much from day 1. The odd part isn't his character age or the amount of SP he has.... It's that he's canadian (who would have thunk it).

It's a rough guide, not a set of rules. I'm not big on dicktate.