Ships & Modules

Getting ready to train into dreads in the next few months. Right now, I’ve narrowed it down to two choices: the Naglfar or the Moros. I understand that the Naglfar is by far the most popular of the dreads, but everything I’ve came up with leads me to believe the Moros is the better choice. Nevertheless, I am looking for some input.

Thus far, this is what I’ve compiled:

The basics: The Moros does a higher quantity (slightly more than 20%) of pure DPS than the Naglfar at ALL ranges (if carrying the correct type of ammo). However, it is limited to Kin/Therm damage only. Furthermore, the Naglfar has a 6/6 split between low and med slots (respectively) making it more flexible in the tanking department (can be shield OR armor fit easily). The Moros has a 7/5 split making it easier to tank armor, but not impossible to tank shield.

The specifics: Taking the basics into account, and plugging a lot of data into EFT I have deduced the following conclusions:

1. The Moros is much superior in the structure grinding department. It does a higher quantity of paper DPS and the overwhelming majority of structures have either no resists or even resists across all four damage types (so the kin/therm issue is mitigated). So even though the Naglfar can switch to different types of DPS it is still going to produce lower DPS and alpha than the Moros. The ONLY type of structure where the Naglfar is better is when dealing with Gallente and Caldari POS Shields (and shields ONLY) since they have resistances against Kin/Therm damage. However, POS armor and POS structure have uniform resists so Kin/Therm only damage is not an issue. Furthermore, Amarr and Minmatar POS shields take more damage from the Moros than the Naglfar due to weak resists against Kin/Therm as well as, all SBUs, POS armor, POS structure, TCUs, iHubs, Outposts, and other sov related structures due to uniform resists across the board.

2. In PVP the Naglfar is better against Gallente and Amarr ships due to their resists being against Kin/Therm because the Naglfar is able to switch ammo types. However, the Moros is better against Amarr and Minmatar ships due to their base resistances when compared to the Naglfar. Once again, even though the Naglfar can switch to different types of ammunition, it does a lower base damage so it will not be able to output more DPS than the Moros in this case. EXCEPTION: If a fleet of dreads consists of ONLY Moroses it stands to reason that the enemy cap fleet could simply swap out their tanks to go against Kin/Thermal. In this case, the Moros would be mitigated. However, the overwhelming majority of people prefer Naglfars (because of their perceived flexibility) so it is likely that if I were to fly a Moros, the fleet I am with would be flying a mix of capitals and thus would not give the enemy fleet the luxury of defending against a specific type of DPS. As such, the Moros and Naglfar would be equally good in most PvP situations (one is better against Amarr/Minmatar the other is better against Caldari/Gallente).

3. Capacitor: The Naglfar does not require cap to fire its weapons. The Moros does. That is obviously a point to the Naglfar. However, my thought process with this is as follows: If I run out of cap in either ship it is likely the result of being neuted/drained/generally having to run an active tank due to being attacked, and not simply the result of running my weapons (since the Moros’s cap lasts in excess of 1 hour when firing weapons). As such, if I run out of cap in either ship I am probably fooked and it will not be the result of the weapons firing, it will be the result of an attack. So while the Naglfar does score a point in this department, I don’t see it being an issue in the Moros anymore than it is in the Naglfar.

Looking for input.

The Phoenix does less DPS than either the Naglfar or the Moros. The ONLY time when it MIGHT be better is when shooting POS shields (and SHIELDS ONLY). In all other instances, either the Naglfar or Moros are better choices.

You forgot the part about the Naglfar being verticle. 99 times out of 100 in a dread fleet either one is a viable choice.

Depends on what you want to do with it.

For example my corp almost exclusively uses Naglfars for PvP in w-space.
The reason is that in w-space you have to expect a lot of neuting. A Moros that is under neut pressure will have to stop shooting very quickly and becomes essentially useless at that point.
You can't shut down a Nag like that with just neuts - you have to neut AND shoot it until it explodes to remove it's dps from the field, which takes a lot longer and also means that you can't put pressure on other targets during that time because your dps is busy shooting the Nag.

Oh and ofc because they are
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One man crew recently release their competition video, in the video servant's lord does some solo phonix PVP. it is worth a watch https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=385199.
After watching this I messed around on the test server with an armor tanked phoenix with citadel cruise missiles and all the mids filled with a mix of tp's web's and a scram.. it was eyeopening on what it can actually do. will it work in capital pvp with an armor tank.. no idea.

I believe this is what you are looking for. Watching this one fight alone has made me seriously consider training for a Phoenix instead of a Nagalfar.

Moros.

Unless the aesthetics of a nag make you get one. It's not the better dread, but the better looking one. (Ofc assuming you want one for low/null)

Is the Revelation that bad, that it ain't even brought up even once? Wow...

The Nag is superior

- it has very close to the same tracking as a Moros

- the shield tank with a few deadspace mods can reach 40k DPS overheated

- Only the Phoenix is able to constantly apply damage if the hostiles are under , but as noted its not as effective in applying that damage till CCP adjusts at least Capital Cruise missiles to be more effective. If they are in cruiser hulls you cannot hit them unless they are pretty much not moving.

- All the tracking issues go away if you are able to dictate some range with the Turret based dreads. Revelations (the worse tracking dread) will hit cruisers for nearly full damage if you can get distance from them.