Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The problem with that is that it does not help Shiedl Battleships as much as armor ones and .. it is not exaclty on the concept of combat battleships.

Might be somethign that woudl work for the concept of attack battleships although.

So maybe a simple role bonus. attack battleships get 20% extra range on all ewar (just a random number) coudl be something.

It is much EASIER to just roll a ewar range bonus on the battleship hulls. No need to screw market, create tons of new items and a lot of other issues.


Problem remains, it makes sense just for a few of the battleships.

Yeah, I'm in the same camp on this one. I think that the fact that battleships can fit tackle is well enough in the first place. Battleships will always be able to to hold tackle, but cruisers will do it better, and frigates will do it a lot better, which constitutes something of a limiting factor on battleships. This isn't neccessarily a bad thing, because deficiencies in one region are opportunities for growth in another direction and I'm perfectly happy that frigates or cruisers are a better choice for fast or initial tackle than battleships, so long as battleships do something else better in return.

I don't know if it's easier or not roll ewar in the hull of a ship, but something that I do know is that even a small change in web or scram range has some pretty big consequences in PVP, so either making specific case hull changes or adding new modules is going to change the face of the game quite a bit, and I don't know if it's something that the game is in the right state for at the moment. There's still so much work to be done balancing existing ships and modules, some of which are ewar specialists, like the force recons, which I'd rather see rebalanced before or concurrent with blanket changes to ewar.

It's not something that's bad to think about or maybe even theory-craft with a little bit, but I think it should go in the 'wait and see' folder for now.

Kagura: No argument on the majority of that. I will argue that the apoc has what seems to me the most attackship-y bonuses out of the Amarr line, as the abbadon has the resist bonus, and the new geddon is a disruption ship rather than combat or attack IMO.

On a few related notes:
Active tank bonuses are great on attack platforms, which are mostly for roam and raid playstyles. I tenatively want to swap these off of any combat ship which has them for one of the other forms of tank bonus. Because of crystals, ASBs, XL shield boosters and the like, they are more powerful on shield hulls for tank, but tend to have more pressure on the slots they would go in because of tackle.


Resist bonuses are insanely powerful on ships with a small number of slots, but perform less well as the number of slots increases. Also, due to the higher resists generated by invulns vs EANMs, they are less powerful for shield. This is because resists use both a stacking penalty and a distance formula, meaning the overall resist bonus ends up stacking harder.

Straight HP bonuses are much more powerful when you have large numbers of slots to play with, as decent resists are easy. They are more powerful for armor than shield because of the slave set, and the much larger buffer increase of a 1600 plate vs an LSE. This synergy is even worse if the rigs aren''t needed for other things but can be trimarks.

For the tempest:

How do similar fitting and other hard stats as are currently in the spreadsheet with a switch to a 7.5% ROF bonus and a 5%/lvl shield boost amount and a 7/6/6 layout sound?

I also like the "5 mids with a bunch of lows for armor/gank" aspect alot... But as stated i am far from an expert...

I seem to recall CCP asking what players would think of a -1 mid +1 low version of the tempest in another announcement thread around the kronos expansion somewhere...

Ship bonuses are NEVER stack nerfed.

Taht was always the line of my proposal. But shield boost bonuse smust be 7.5% otherwis e peopel do not use them.

1 neut is great. But if you need mroe than 1.. then you will soon jump to 6 with the drone boats. Therefore 2 neuts do nto have a usage envelope that is relevant.

Still 8/6/5 woudl be great. Why? Because 6 low slots are hard to justify on a shield tanking battleships. 3 damage mods 1DC and 1 TE.




If the tempest is to be ketp armor tanking. The correct way to fix it its to neutralize the fact taht its damage is largely mitigated by having 1 less slot for damage mods, and you do that by adding a 7th turret slot. Touch nothing else except fittings.. it would at least be a ship that is not overstepped by the malestrom, typhoon and megathron on all roles.

The fleet tempest could be kept as an armor boat, beign different from the little brother.

Pest is not in our doctrines and it is not a mythical ship. It is effectively a bigger brother to the old cane (now the navy cane) that everyone flew before CCP stopped the cane from using two med neuts and perfectly suited to smaller gang work.

Other option for the tempest. Since in theory the sell point of the tempest are the neuts... you coudl captalize on that. Armageddon is the long range neut boat..

but you could make the tempest have a 7.5% ROF bonus (a bit less than now) and a 20% neutralizer AMMOUNT per level. The 2 neuts would become 4. The ship would have less dps but a specific role.


And before anyone complain that this is amarr bonus.

TP bonus on golem, ROF bonus on mega (rof bonus was supposed to be minmatar only when the racial identities were creaed), falloff bonus on several gallente ships, navy zealot faster than fleet sttaber. Gallente ships effectively more mobile than minmatar ones. The racial identities of minmatar were already stolen EONS ago... its is nothign more than fair.. that minmatar would have a ship that EXCELLED TO FIGHT against ammar ships!

It makes sense on a lore development scenario... it makes huge sense on the balance of ships, since the bad slot layout of the tempest balances well with a bonus that makes it a great ATTACK BATTLESHIP!! And makes a lot of sense on the ROLE scenario, because it is a role not covered yet, it makes it completely orthogonal to the typhoon and maelstrom and not a shadow of them.

Being adaptable.. at DOCKED time is just an excuse to being FAIL whenever you are undocked.


What trick you talk about? Where is it usable nowadays ? I suppose you are talking about shield tempest with neuts to kill capitals as a cannon fooder thing to throw and collect insurance later...

The typhoon can drop 1 launcher to fit 2 neuts and do same DPS (in fact a tiny bit more) as a tempest but with PURE damage type (advantage) but smaller and more nimble . You can do the same with the raven!!! In fact if you drop 2 turrets fromt he mega to field Neuts, it does only 90 dps less than the tempest!!!!

Even if the tempest was slightly superior on this VERY Limited trick scenario (that it is not) it would still not be enough to justify its existance.

I must laugh at anyone that thinks that a ship is balanced because at a single NICHE and rare usage.. it can do 90 dps more than a mega that has dropped 2 of its turrets to fit the same neuting capability. All whiel the mega can be easily used as a INFITENLY superior ship in the other 99.5% of eve situations.

And what is the speed that you speak that it has and the geddon do not? is not as you need an extra 150m/s to bump a capital ship, and ALL battleships are too slow to have their mobility matter against smaller ships. It is a VERY minor advantage that does not compensate the MASSIVE disadvantage everywhere else.

The geddon and domi are still far superior on that role, by sheer capability of bringing MORE neuts with same DPS or WAY more neuts with a bit less dps and fielding much more EHP at same time.

The tempest only trick is to resemble superficially a ship that was in a completely different size class of a completely different metagame? wow amazing role.. almost as relevant as having a bonus to festival launchers

In the last 1 year, I have seen only 1 tempest .. only one!! The only battleships more rare nowadays is the scorpion.