EVE General Discussion

Exactly.

I respect miners that set traps to thwart gank attempts.

I prey upon miners that make no attempts to defend themselves. I don't hate them any more than a lion hates deer or a mission runner hates Serpentis, and if they ask respectfully, I'll offer them tips to help them become the first category.

And I actively detest the ones that claim they have no tools for self defense and demand that the game be changed to accommodate AFK play.

Good post +1 from me.

I've taken the liberty of searching this thread for the term " hate " (spaces included).

There are several posts found where players, particularly gankers explicitly state that they don't hate miners.

There are a few posts of people projecting hatred from gankers toward miners such as this troll post.

There is precisely one post, here, by Kaarous Aldurald using the phrase "I hate miners", but the reason quoted is how the mining profession makes for a frustrating experience for new players.

So no, it seems no one hates miners. There's certainly some animosity regarding the profession, how it breaks the risk-reward ratio and how it damages the image of the game for new players, but as for hate against the players themselves?

It would seem after 10 pages (post moderation) that no, no one actually hates miners. It's all in their heads.

Wow i just lost some IQ points in real life reading this. Really people? come on its a game. You lost a ship so what. Buy a new one. Get over it. Its like you get killed in CoH and typing "Cheater/hacks aimbotter". You die its not a suprise. Stop QQ about it

I'm going to dig up a Deep Space 9 analogy here.

One of my favorite episodes featured an alien named Tosk, whose sole purpose was to outsmart his hunters. It was certainly easy for Chief O'Brien, a human who was helping him, to see the hunters as vicious killers and Tosk as a victim.

As it turns out, Tosk had a deep reverence for the Hunter and the Hunt, and the Hunters respected and worshipped the Tosk for doing its work as prey, to outsmart the hunters and live another day.

We seem to have this environment in EVE where the hunters keep arguing that blowing up ships is within their rights, and that they aren't responsible for anything further than that, like sportsmanship or respect.

The hunted keep arguing that they have no responsibility to outwit and outrun the hunter, or have any respect for the hunt.

So, when I see the hunters complain about drowning in expletives (an EVE player is fully within her rights to use bad language), or the hunted complain about getting blown up (a PVPer is within her rights to blow up any ship she wants), I feel no sympathy.

Both sides have created an environment of hostility. Things could really be different, but they aren't.

If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.

-Sun Tzu


I guess he was craven, too.

One of the reasons I like gankers is that I have, at times, been involved in buying and selling mining equipment.

Gankers occasionally acquire mining modules they do not want, and miners occasionally acquire ganking modules they do not want. Additionally, miners occasionally suffer implant loss. This creates opportunities for ruthless traders.

Gank catalysts are a marketing writeoff anyway.

Lauded by who?

As you say Eve is a sandbox full of choices, not a "good fight" simulation game. CCP has put a lot of effort to allow highsec criminal behavior to exist in this game (security status, Crimewatch, CONCORD mechanics, etc.). Players are suppose to have the option to play the villainous thug, preying on the weak and unprepared and taking their stuff. CCP has rightly recognized that this risk of crime in highsec adds a significant dimension to the game, and makes highsec a much more interesting place to live.

You are welcome to judge this as somehow "craven" and apply consequences to those that engage in this criminal behaviour - that too is part of the sandbox. But your sense of "space honour" doesn't change the fact that the game is explicitly designed so other players can take your stuff, even in highsec, if you do not protect yourself. Gankers are not using some "loophole" or cheap exploit - they are enforcing the risk part of the game as intended by CCP.

No one is helpless in this game - except for perhaps the true 2-day old new player who doesn't understand game mechanics. If miners, haulers and other players do not take some of the the multitude of precautions available to them, they are intended to explode. Most of the people I gank get this - they either quietly take their lumps and are more careful in the future, or respond with a good-natured vow of revenge or resistance to the Code or something that is all part of the game. If it becomes clear that the player I just ganked is a true new player with a good attitude, I take them time to educate them on what they can do to be safer, and replace their ship.

The problem is with the small minority who either do not understand what kind of game this is, can't accept a loss to another player, or somehow take my exploding them as a personal insult and start spewing hateful insults up to, and including, death threats. This group is a small minority, but still common enough that I run across them on several times a month even with my moderate Code enforcement level recently. You are welcome to judge my criminal behaviour as "craven" and apply any in-game consequence you wish, but you are not welcome to hurl such abuse at me for just playing the game as CCP intends.

EDIT: Re-reading this I see that you Jenshae, might take offense thinking this post as directed at you which is is not the case. I am sure you are reasonable player who understands all of this and would not abuse another player. I am using "you" in the general sense meaning other players.

Which is why there's better eating on a miner.

Tuna tastes better than plankton and is easier to kill than swordfish.

With La Rynx, it's always about the CODE.
It's funny, almost propaganda for the bad guys.

If I may speak up neutrally for once .........

We interrupt this program for a special message.

CODE will forever be known as the bad guys ...
... as long as any of the below points are true.

.) There are people who are getting really mad about losing their ships,
.) There are people who completely reject the idea of a policed state in highsec.
.) There is an older generation that knows CODE and their past behaviour.
.) There are jerks who rub salt into the wounds of those who lost their ships.

I know how to change the top three ones ...
... but the last one is impossible to change ...
... as long as anyone can use an alt, fight "for the CODE" ...
... and make all of CODE look like space nazis. (Perception, okay?)

It's impossible to "police" that. Even with reports from victims and kicking such "offenders",
there is nothing that stops anyone to create a new alt to discredit CODE.

Now I wonder when people will come and say that the last point is non-existant ...
... in a sandbox game where I can play the villain and this meta-gaming is allowed.

*Snip* Removed off-topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.