Intergalactic Summit

The Empire stands to gain more by ending the war and ending slavery than by continuing down the path condemned by New Eden at large, shared only by the most horrendous criminal organizations. I say again, the path to peace is through the end of slavery. It is the one single linchpin that must be handled if you actually want peace. Otherwise, we simply have to accept that the Empire have no interest in peace and act accordingly.

It really is as simple as that. The rest of the discussions around the morality, the practicalities, the ethics, the bloodthirst, the religion and vengeance... it is all simply beating around the bush. While even one of my people remain in slavery, there will be war, official or not.

You have to take into account on how the Amarr Empire's economy works however. The Amarr Empire is built on the back of slaves. Slavery is highly ingrained into Amarrian economics. Amarr depends on slaves to do all the hard labour, be it in the agricultural sectors to the manufacturing sectors and etc. If they emancipate all the slaves today, they need to make sweeping, costly changes to how their economy is run as well as having to build or repurpose all the infrastructure for paid labour. Then there's the issue of actually acquiring the paid labour. All of these probably contributed to their current reluctance (the other reason being religion).

Simply asking the Amarr Empire to end slavery isn't going to change much. Deals had to be sweetened, millenia's worth of indoctrination had to be expunged.

The Empress has already said that the Age of Slavery is coming to an end.

Generational slavery that is. I think she might have said something about judicial slavery still being a thing, you know, putting convicted murderers and thieves and such into productive purposes and rehabilitating them, instead of what other places do and just locking them up.


But I think Shakor might have painted himself into a corner, where any kind of concession would completely undermine the image he wants to portray to the people of the Republic and so on.

Maybe those "Elders" can change his mind.

I find it laughable that people actually think these "Wars" actually mean that much.
The empires aren't fighting them, the capsuleers are, so they aren't suffering the losses and attrition that a real war brings. Yes they do devote some assets to the capsuleer's efforts, but it is very minor, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if more naval assets are destroyed by capsuleers not associated with the militias, but instead working for agents.

There is no reason for the Republic to surrender since they aren't the ones fighting and losing, and even if they were surrendering, the Amarr Empire wouldn't be the one beating them that they'd surrender to. Aside from that, the warzones are cyclical, or has the Amarr milita already forgotten the times the Minmatar aligned capsuleers had THEM beaten back or the fact this situation has reoccurred several times.

People seem to be forgetting that Shakor is an oath-breaker and a war criminal. I would have thought that the Minmatars would be glad to get rid of him so they can begin to earn the respect of the other races.

This is a minor point, barely relating to the overall issue, but you have never had *total* control of the warzone.

Gaven, your speeches are as empty as Jade Constantine's - using far too many words to say far too little, and convincing no-one outside the dupes and dolts that follow you. Get this through your head, and accept it as truth - the Minmatar will not be surrendering to you. You will not be dictating terms to them, you will not be receiving concessions from them and you will most certainly not be dictating any staff changes within their government. Accept this, or stay silent - the IGS is full of enough delusions as it is. And just so you know - PIE as an alliance can barely keep its combat efficiency above 65% so you're hardly in a position to represent the supposed military strength of the Empire.

The Federation lost all of our contested territory for six months and the economic and political impact was at worst an impediment, not a culture-threatening cataclysm - and we actually lost one of our founding nation's homeworlds. The humanitarian impact of the Caldari occupation was famine warnings on some of our planets because Heth's forces were intentionally destroying essential supply convoys.

You know where the real economic impact was? On the State, once they lost control of Federation territory when we liberated it from their control and restored its rightful sovereignty. They'd invested so much money in "development rights" to our systems - which no-one involved in this matter ever had a right to sell, as those rights belong exclusively to the Federal citizens who live there, under the auspices of Federal Administration - that when we took them back, which no-one among the Caldari leadership at the time had ever, in their monumental hubris, imagined that we might do, the Caldari economy almost flatlined. It took a massive injection of raw capital from the Empire to stop the State from bankrupting itself. Between this massive economic crisis and the aftermath of Heth's malfesence and inept mismanagement of State resources, the Caldari still haven't returned their economy to pre-war levels of prosperity as of yet.

Who'll bail the Empire out if it ruins its own economy trying to exploit Minmatar systems?

It did kind of help that the Republic had, basically, abandoned the warzone systems in all but name. Remember Pike's Landing? Only reason why there's even Matari presence there until that time the Amarr somehow managed to take it temporarily was because of one stubborn general. He wasn't even supported by the greater Republic.

Goes to show just how much the Republic cares about the warzone. In fact, the warzone was, has, and always will be a farce. At least on the Amarr-Minmatar front. It's just there to keep us capsuleers occupied and, technically, under the thumbs of the Empires.

The warzone is nothing more than a playground for mercenaries and privateers. Nothing more than that.

Midular was at the head of an appeasement Government which achieved nothing and was proven to be riddled with traitors. The Elder fleet however returned the Starmanir and Nefatar to us. A giant step forward in the Long War. Recent events in the Bleak Lands are just a small step backwards.

Marus

I have yet to finish reading this thread, but simply looking at the historical timeline of events I can see no reason for the OP to call for the handover of a man who only took a position of power after the events he is being blamed for.
The one who was in power at the time, is dead.

The fleets in question were disavowed by both the Republic navy and Republic government.

To call for the handover, apparently for execution, of the current leader of the Republic, for acts performed by a group apparently not under their control is the equivalent of the Federation demanding that Amarr hand over their Empress for the invasion of their space under Karsoth's watch.

Complete nonsense.