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Dev blog: Download on Demand client for EVE Online

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Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2014-12-16 23:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
KIller Wabbit wrote:
So I went AFK with the Duality launcher up, but not in game because I'm waiting on account info to be updated on the server.

Since I was idling in the launcher - will it continue updating in the background without me being logged in or does further package download not happen until I actually get in game?



Looks like it will patch whatever you need when you start the launcher and will let you log in while its downloading updates to RES CACHE.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-12-16 23:35:33 UTC
Stormhawk wrote:
What about those of us that have a minimal monthly bandwidth, say like 4gb per month. Will we have to download everything for the game when they implement the new method, or will the system already use the files that I have downloaded already?

I just cannot have a lot of midgame several hundred megabyte patches, because they will just decimate my monthly bandwith limit.


There is a check box in the Launcher settings in a tab called Resource Download you can check to download everything.
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#123 - 2014-12-16 23:42:27 UTC
Samsara Toldya wrote:
Quote:
What about the offline installer?

We will still offer a way to install from a pre-downloaded package, if for example you need to transfer it on a USB stick.


"Still"... I thought that option was no longer supported?

Say I have a slow connection without any options to upgrade - on top of that there is a monthly volume I am allowed to download until my connection speed is reduced even more (or I have to pay an extra fee for spare bandwith).
As it is I'm running into volume issues every release and the new way to release patches won't change this. The new release cycle made this special situation even worse.

Right now (without 'exploiting' the no longer supported method) I do need an EVE installation to download the releases/patches before I am able to transfer it on a USB stick.
At work I would be allowed to download files (lucky me) but for :reasons: I am not allowed to install EVE.

For sure I am not the only one with limited volume - please consider a way to download the releases/patches without a working EVE installation.
Right now I create my own URL to download the .zip file as soon as I find out release/version-number.
It sounds as if that wouldn't be possible next year What?


This ^^

Also for patches and changes to data would be handy to have download file(s) (which I know we can find in the Launcher logs, which I did for Rhea, to download with more reliable tools such as wget or curl). As it is, I need an install on my laptop just to take to a local "free" wifi connection to keep my bandwidth (capped) consumption down on patch day(s).

I think it's a neat idea, but don't break our current functionality (visible options for *where* to cache this data would be handy for those of us who put our games on a separate partition or drive from the OS).
Telinir
InterStellar Flight Inc.
#124 - 2014-12-16 23:57:35 UTC
I think that there should be several priority levels for different undownloaded objects.

Aka, highest priority is downloading the immediate surroundings or player focus, the next priority is downloading the system, and if all that is done, the client should continuously download data non-stop until it is complete. If you have nothing to immediately download as per the previous conditions then you should start finding the most relevant details to download.

Though I imagine it will work in some fashion like that already. Very neat concept CCP, make sure you make good use of the time it takes to watch the cinematic + initial character creation, some good chunk of assets can be downloaded at that time. :)
James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#125 - 2014-12-17 00:07:28 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
and does this mean that we will see super high res textures soon(tm)?

This is the topic I came here to ask about as well. I was told explicitly that the limiting factor for high-res textures was that there was no method for the launcher to support them as an optional download. Well, it looks like the client itself is getting massively overhauled, so now seems to be the time to start supporting them. This is one of the best ways to support "content creators", "instigators and enablers", and make it reasonable to have a contest for player-made videos.

If the art department still complains, then let them speak up and further clarify the delay, but this seems like a pretty awesome update from the client team. I'm sure that they could integrate another tier of resolutions if given the directive to do so.

CSM 8 Representative

http://csm8.org
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2014-12-17 00:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
James Arget wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
and does this mean that we will see super high res textures soon(tm)?

This is the topic I came here to ask about as well. I was told explicitly that the limiting factor for high-res textures was that there was no method for the launcher to support them as an optional download.

It's one limiting factor, certainly not the only one. There's a bunch of other development that would have to happen first, and we're going to be doing unrelated work on our texture management that will probably keep us from getting to it for a while (but will enormously help a lot of the problems that you're hoping to improve with high res textures, at lower cost to both us and you.)

Quote:
If the art department still complains, then let them speak up and further clarify the delay, but this seems like a pretty awesome update from the client team. I'm sure that they could integrate another tier of resolutions if given the directive to do so.

CCP Snorlax sits about 20 feet from my desk, and our teams work together, so I am 1000% certain he wasn't promising higher-res textures as a feature that would roll out with a production download-on-demand client. However, I agree with him (and your sources) that this is a huge step toward enabling a high-res texture pack to happen. It also has a lot of advocates on our team (many of whom have spoken up in the "we want high-res textures" megathread) but it's not simply flipping a switch and saying "here you go," and there may be factors that still keep it from happening for a while.

(That last, if it seemed like a weaselly way out, was my way of indicating that groups like our operations team may have reasons they would rather we not go high-res, and since I haven't spoken to them, I can't speak for them.)

We're all really excited about Download-On-Demand and where it can lead, though. All I'm saying is that more work has to be done than just Download-On-Demand to enable increased texture resolution.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#127 - 2014-12-17 01:00:47 UTC
Try it? ok. I have ADSL connection that typpically allows about 375Mb/s. I run my client on max setting at all times.


  1. Erased my current Duality install.
  2. DL installer took about 10 seconds. Smile
  3. Run installer. 89.24 MB dl. Not bad. Start up my forum post while waiting. *1
  4. Log in. PLAY button is grey. Commence 329.75MB DL *2
  5. After 5-10 minutes, PLAY goes yellow.
  6. Client is slow to start. Only a black screen for about 1-2 minutes. Then I get character select.
  7. Select chaaracter. Get another black screen for 2 minutes. Station environment loads. I'm looking at my Caracal.
  8. Undock is fine. Local stars load. Wait about 30 seconds and I get nebulas.
  9. Warp to gate. np. Jump. Warp tunnel is a no go. But jumping takes normal time. System loads just fine. Warping to a planet for the first time it took a few seconds for the planet to show. But after that it was fine. Stations scaled into view beautifully.
  10. All further jumps load fine. But I change regions just in case. No delays.
  11. Background music stuttered frequently. (Confirmed, Eve has sound.)


Test complete. Sweet Baby Jesus. This is awesome. Deploy this.

At no point was I explicitly given an option of where to install anything. However, the options exist within the launcher.

*1: While waiting for the client to dl, I would like to mention that people I have tried to get into this game, upon hearing the 7GB DL size and need to wait all night to get it, have simply said "Nope, not gonna do it. Don't want to tie up my internet all night." Conincidentally, in the time it took me to write this, dl finished.

*2: This went astonishingly fast. Clearly it didn't even need to dl the entire 375MB. However, at 329.71/329.75MB the client appears to hang. Since this is a test, I have my networking monitor open and can see that the connection is active. So maybe your DL bar is giving an inaccurate report. After a couple more minutes, it continued on its merry way.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Kallikor
Perkone
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-12-17 02:01:55 UTC
Stormhawk wrote:
What about those of us that have a minimal monthly bandwidth, say like 4gb per month. Will we have to download everything for the game when they implement the new method, or will the system already use the files that I have downloaded already?

I just cannot have a lot of midgame several hundred megabyte patches, because they will just decimate my monthly bandwith limit.


You should read the whole blog. They're adding a method to getting the game, not completely replacing the old one. Just keep downloading Eve the same way you do now.
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2014-12-17 02:22:21 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:


Within few minutes of gameplay, the client will have downloaded the low detail version of all models


At what connection speed?
Jennifer Spearshield
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2014-12-17 02:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Spearshield
This type deployment technology would have been great throughout the mid 90's through the mid 00's, but not these days when bandwidth (and CDN sites) is multi-of-multi-times cheaper, faster and more accessible.

I also doubt that downloading 7GB worth of content ahead of actual game-time, which assures me 0 delay later on when loading assets or anything else in EVE's universe is really a big issue for most people these days.

Isn't that project kind of a waste of precious human resources?

In any case, good luck with the launch!
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#131 - 2014-12-17 03:22:22 UTC
Jennifer Spearshield, then why, let's say, Blizzard, Bioware, et cetera switched to streaming download in the past year or two? Not sooner?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Slavealt
Sheep Can Hear A Zipper From A Mile Away
#132 - 2014-12-17 05:14:07 UTC
Yeah...after the launcher fiasco, I have zero confidence you guys are actually gonna make sure everything works properly before deploying this.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#133 - 2014-12-17 05:43:51 UTC
It's not a bad idea, but I can definitely see how this would have the potential to break a lot.
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#134 - 2014-12-17 06:07:48 UTC
I predict that this will exacerbate the 'Socket Closed' error messages that a lot of people get.

And in the case where a large number of new players suddenly end up in a reasonably major fight (like the recent one in HED-GP), how will this be impacted by TiDi? We had hundreds of new players, most in basic frigates suddenly seeing bubbles, logi chains, doomsdays as well as a fairly large amount of new models - Titans, Supers and Fighters / Bombers all of a sudden.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#135 - 2014-12-17 06:21:21 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
I predict that this will exacerbate the 'Socket Closed' error messages that a lot of people get.

And in the case where a large number of new players suddenly end up in a reasonably major fight (like the recent one in HED-GP), how will this be impacted by TiDi? We had hundreds of new players, most in basic frigates suddenly seeing bubbles, logi chains, doomsdays as well as a fairly large amount of new models - Titans, Supers and Fighters / Bombers all of a sudden.



As I understand it - EVE components are not strictly downloaded only on demand as encountered. Software components are slowly loading in the background constantly so a few hours of game play will result in the full download being completed (for most people with adequate internet pipes). Until then - basic "structures" are standing in so game play is not hindered.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#136 - 2014-12-17 08:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferni Ka'Nviiou
This wouldn't really affect how I load the game, however it will most likely affect how I play, so I do have a question.

I have multiple installs of the game so that I can have different UI/Overview/Market/Ship settings for each of my characters.
Can I still set different directories for each seperate client?
Slavealt
Sheep Can Hear A Zipper From A Mile Away
#137 - 2014-12-17 08:19:22 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
I predict that this will exacerbate the 'Socket Closed' error messages that a lot of people get.

And in the case where a large number of new players suddenly end up in a reasonably major fight (like the recent one in HED-GP), how will this be impacted by TiDi? We had hundreds of new players, most in basic frigates suddenly seeing bubbles, logi chains, doomsdays as well as a fairly large amount of new models - Titans, Supers and Fighters / Bombers all of a sudden.


I can just see a large assorted cap/supercap/T2 subcap fleet jumping/bridging in at the same time, and nuking half of the on-field fleet's connection as it loads all of the new data.
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#138 - 2014-12-17 09:04:19 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
This wouldn't really affect how I load the game, however it will most likely affect how I play, so I do have a question.

I have multiple installs of the game so that I can have different UI/Overview/Market/Ship settings for each of my characters.
Can I still set different directories for each seperate client?

Yes, you can, but they can all use the same shared cache folder for downloaded resources, saving you lots of disk space.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-12-17 09:12:24 UTC
James Arget wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
and does this mean that we will see super high res textures soon(tm)?

This is the topic I came here to ask about as well. I was told explicitly that the limiting factor for high-res textures was that there was no method for the launcher to support them as an optional download. Well, it looks like the client itself is getting massively overhauled, so now seems to be the time to start supporting them. This is one of the best ways to support "content creators", "instigators and enablers", and make it reasonable to have a contest for player-made videos.

If the art department still complains, then let them speak up and further clarify the delay, but this seems like a pretty awesome update from the client team. I'm sure that they could integrate another tier of resolutions if given the directive to do so.


Do et ccp!

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Luscius Uta
#140 - 2014-12-17 09:15:46 UTC
Does this means that we'll be no longer seeing "Traffic Control is currently offline and unable to process your jump request. Please try again in a moment" messages?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.