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Dev blog: Download on Demand client for EVE Online

First post First post
Author
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#101 - 2014-12-16 21:03:25 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Swidgen wrote:
What about w-space? Every jump will require on-demand loading since, unlike stargates, there is no way to tell ahead of time what's on the otherside of a new wormhole.

CCP has done a lot of good things in the last 12 months. This thing, however, has all the hallmarks of a disaster in the making.

Why, thank you for that note of confidence. This is exactly what makes it so fun to work on EVE.


Doom and gloom aside, it is an interesting question.

Obviously the server knows what is on the other side of a wormhole, even if the intrepid player doesn't. Will the system prefetch those things, and be a potential source of intel without actually having to visit and jump the WH?

And on the speed side of things - will it be possible for a player in say a leopard shuttle or interceptors to travel systems so rapidly that they outrun the prefetching?

The client does not, and will not, get any extra information from the server to aid in prefetching, as tempting as it may be. It simply is too risky for possible exploitation.

Within few minutes of gameplay, the client will have downloaded the low detail version of all models so you will always see something right away, even if the higher detail model may take a few seconds to appear.

We've done most of our testing in developer-only ships that are much faster than anything you could use for real in the game, and we rarely make it from one stargate to the next before the prefetch finishes. Keep in mind, also, that there is a finite number of models in the game - there is less and less that needs downloading as you jump between systems as the models have been seen somewhere else before.

And finally, you always have the option of downloading everything.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/

XTbe
Drake Interplanetary Inc
#102 - 2014-12-16 21:04:54 UTC
Hi,

Love this idea. I was also thinking if it would be possible with this mechanism to download everything on one pc and be able to re-use/download the cache from this pc onto eg a laptop on which you have EVE also installed. This would avoid downloading it twice and should also be a lot faster as it's a local network operation.

Based on what I read think it should be possible to copy the cache folder manually but would be nice if it could be done from within the launcher/client

Keep up the good work guys !

CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#103 - 2014-12-16 21:07:34 UTC
XTbe wrote:
Hi,

Love this idea. I was also thinking if it would be possible with this mechanism to download everything on one pc and be able to re-use/download the cache from this pc onto eg a laptop on which you have EVE also installed. This would avoid downloading it twice and should also be a lot faster as it's a local network operation.

Based on what I read think it should be possible to copy the cache folder manually but would be nice if it could be done from within the launcher/client

Keep up the good work guys !


Yes, copying the folder manually will work just fine - there's no extra data stored elsewhere that needs to go with it.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/

Noriko Mai
#104 - 2014-12-16 21:09:40 UTC
Oh while you are at it. Please bring back the Dark Opaque Theme!

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Ophelia en Daire
Black Rebel Death Squad
#105 - 2014-12-16 21:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ophelia en Daire
Just needlessly screw with the game more. Guess we'll probably lose all of our custom setups for multiple clients also.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#106 - 2014-12-16 21:24:21 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Alundil wrote:
What nefarious uses can (and will) this be put too?
Scenario:
Want to know what's in a neighboring wh system. Exit Eve client. Clear cache on scouts account. Login and load wh system. Analyze the files downloaded on demand for currently connected systems. Intel?

How will the prefetching handle bridging?
Scenario:
New player joined a "titan-owning" corp/alliance. Is told to join fleet and warp to a POS for Titan bridge. Takes titan bridge to a system he's never been to before. Will he die while resources are loading for what's in that system and surrounding systems?

These types of things, I think, could hinder adoption of this deployment methodology.

Prefetching for neighboring systems only looks at static data that the client already has. This means what stations, stargates, planets, moons, etc. are in the systems. We do not get any extra information, whatsoever, from the server to decide what do download beforehand. So sorry, no help there for your nefarious purposes.

Within a few minutes of gameplay the client will have downloaded low-detail models for everything - all ships, stations, stargates, etc. so you will never enter space and not see anything. Besides, the overview and brackets will always show up immediately.

And finally, if anyone has concerns over not seeing things right away due to downloading, have the launcher download everything before entering the game. That option will always be available.

Thanks for the clarification. To be clear it was not so much for "my" nefarious purposes as I'm not the "nefarious-type". More along the lines of thinking about potential issues that might lead to exploitative (or at the very least unanticipated) behavior.

I'm right behind you

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-12-16 21:26:09 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
XTbe wrote:
Hi,

Love this idea. I was also thinking if it would be possible with this mechanism to download everything on one pc and be able to re-use/download the cache from this pc onto eg a laptop on which you have EVE also installed. This would avoid downloading it twice and should also be a lot faster as it's a local network operation.

Based on what I read think it should be possible to copy the cache folder manually but would be nice if it could be done from within the launcher/client

Keep up the good work guys !


Yes, copying the folder manually will work just fine - there's no extra data stored elsewhere that needs to go with it.


Hi-res texture pack plox, ok? thx!
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#108 - 2014-12-16 21:34:56 UTC
Ever since ship skins were reprogrammed the game has to freeze up every time it has to load an asset. Like when I undock into a fleet of hostiles.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Essack Leadae
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2014-12-16 21:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Essack Leadae
My previous question was non-sense, sorry for that.

Keep up the good work. This new system sound interresting. I will love using shared ressources between different clients, especialy to keep a Singularity one ready all the time.

I just hope that there will be a way (or it will be automatic ?) to "clean" ressources (or move them into TQ standard folders) when it concerns new ressources from test servers, to avoid duplication (once the new TQ patch is released) or obsolescence if a new idea is removed from SiSi.

Removing obsolete signature... You just lost time to read that =)

bassie12bf1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-12-16 21:50:39 UTC
I crashed the game.
http://i.imgur.com/xKOn28q.png

I was in captains quarters. (which took about a minute to load on my rather quick connection)

I then clone jumped to a station which is of a kind i was not in before, was full of things that were not loaded before.

While i waited for the clone jump to occur ( system wasn't loaded on the server? ) I switched from CQ back to hangar view.

After the server loaded the system I got put back into CQ which took about half a minute to load.


I then saw the room, my character was invisible and the hangar was a black void with some smoke and floating forcefields and logos.
Couldn't use the inventory window and that error popped up if I used CQ ways to access ship hangar.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#111 - 2014-12-16 22:14:41 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Swidgen wrote:
What about w-space? Every jump will require on-demand loading since, unlike stargates, there is no way to tell ahead of time what's on the otherside of a new wormhole.

CCP has done a lot of good things in the last 12 months. This thing, however, has all the hallmarks of a disaster in the making.

Why, thank you for that note of confidence. This is exactly what makes it so fun to work on EVE.

Hate to be snarky here, but good dodge on the question...

What about w-space? And yes, we've been reading your constant responses about how all the low-level stuff will be loaded, but if you have your settings on high, what happens then? Does it then start to download all the high stuff for that wormhole?

Also further questions here, since it doesn't seem to really be stated anywhere (yes, I actually took the time to read all 6 pages):

So the devblog (and several posts) mentioned something about "Or just let the launcher window download everything", does that mean that if you don't immediately go into the game it will start downloading everything anyways?

And another silly question, if you do immediately go into the game as soon as physically possible, will the system just continue downloading the full set of assets in the background? Or will it only download the assets your client is specifically asking for?

If your graphics are turned to low/minimum, does the new system just never bother to fetch the higher quality assets and therefore result in a slim client?

What is the minimum client size? You say game's core will only be initially downloaded before you can play, but then you also say that within a few minutes of playing the whole gambit of low assets will be downloaded. Is that in addition to the core game data? If so how much larger does the client get with just the low assets?

If you were to download the new launcher, log in and sit in a station, would anything further be downloaded in the background or would it stop?

Does this core data include item/module/ship info/icons etc? Or will there be lag to the market as it has to download information for anything you click or scroll through.

If the game is going to be downloading assets for things you come across, is there a bandwidth cap for it to use so it does not interfere with latency or create more lag while trying to do anything that may require low latency? I know for me if I am downloading a bunch of stuff while playing Eve I can definitely tell a difference and things react and respond a lot slower than if I wasn't downloading anything.

And finally, might not be a bad idea to actually update the OP with the common/frequent questions/answers as there have been numerous repeats through this thread.
Josef Djugashvilis
#112 - 2014-12-16 22:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
I am an old ugly dude who thinks computers work by white magic.

Am I correct in assuming that I can just down load patches as I do now and log in to play as I do now?

I am sure the answer is, 'yes' but I would like to have it stated clearly.

Thank you.

This is not a signature.

Noriko Mai
#113 - 2014-12-16 22:26:55 UTC
Oh man. I tried it and now I have to download 7.4 GB für my TQ installation... No EVE for me this evening...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Noriko Mai
#114 - 2014-12-16 22:30:59 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I am an old ugly dude who thinks computers work by white magic.

Am I correct in assuming that I can just down load patches as I do now and log in to play as I do now?

I am sure the answer is, 'yes' but I wouls like to have it stated clearly.

Thank you.

yes

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#115 - 2014-12-16 22:39:49 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I am an old ugly dude who thinks computers work by white magic.

Am I correct in assuming that I can just down load patches as I do now and log in to play as I do now?

I am sure the answer is, 'yes' but I would like to have it stated clearly.

Thank you.

Yes.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/

Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-12-16 22:59:35 UTC
Kossaw wrote:
Sounds a great idea....

What does the installer do when the disk runs out of space during the download - you know its going to happen. Some newbie is going to fill their C drive while playing the game.

Some parts of the world still have crappy internet service plans. Will there be any way to control how much gets downloaded and when ? Like can I play on basic resolution this afternoon but set the client to download the rest of the files at 3 am ?

Can I set the game client to update itself every day at 3 am without having to start the launcher manually ?


You can set it up under scheduled tasks to run the launcher at 3am.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#117 - 2014-12-16 23:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
So I went AFK with the Duality launcher up, but not in game because I'm waiting on account info to be updated on the server.

Since I was idling in the launcher - will it continue updating in the background without me being logged in or does further package download not happen until I actually get in game?

Update: Checked the size of the install directory several hours after I cranked the Duality launcher up. I did have my account logged in, but was not logged into the client. The install was stuck at the advertised 314MB. So no, idling the launcher does not enable the content load to be transferred.
Valeo Galaem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2014-12-16 23:26:33 UTC
Two questions:


  • Will we be able to see the on-demand download status in the game, for example in the CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-M status monitor?
  • How will this new system affect setting up parallel test server installs that are each using different resource file versions once all clients are using it?

Standalone Windows build of ccpgames/dae-to-red

https://github.com/Nu11u5/dae-to-red/releases

Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2014-12-16 23:29:22 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
well there's about a hundred gigs saved... I'll have room on my SSDs again

How so...i run all my multiple accounts from the same install, and have since i started...never ever had a problem. This change will save me exactly zero memory as before. Unless they are changing the system to force multiple accounts to use multiple installs...which seems backwards to me.

It will save major space for those that like to help CCP test features howeverBig smile

Yes, and time! This will make it much easier to jump on to a test server.


Just put the Duality install on my secondary drive and was on the test server in about 5 minutes.
Stormhawk
Khanid - Industries
#120 - 2014-12-16 23:30:20 UTC
What about those of us that have a minimal monthly bandwidth, say like 4gb per month. Will we have to download everything for the game when they implement the new method, or will the system already use the files that I have downloaded already?

I just cannot have a lot of midgame several hundred megabyte patches, because they will just decimate my monthly bandwith limit.