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Intergalactic Summit

 
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On victory.

Author
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#161 - 2014-12-16 09:11:24 UTC
Except they're neither criminals nor heretics, are they? If it were so, I'd be rather horrified given the size and number of the fleets conducting slave raids through all of New Eden indicating fairly extreme numbers of them in your quite sanctioned and official navy.

Be honest, at least with yourself, little kin. Pretending doesn't make reality go away and there'll never be change if you pretend the problem doesn't exist, or is something entirely different than what is real. I've personally taken on Imperial fleets in Republic space before the proxy war even started and so have countless others, not much different from how your PIE comrades have rebuffed Republic fleets in Empire space.

The Elders certainly kicked off the "official" war this time around, but the reality is that the war started on the Day of Darkness and never ended. Can't deny that there isn't a sort of beautiful symmetry in having a millennia of peace, unprecedented in human history, ended by an Amarrian invasion and followed by a war as endless and unprecedented in scope, but let's not pretend it is something other than it is.

It will one day end, but not until every trace of our people are either gone or the Empire ends the slavery and war they inflicted on New Eden. That is really all there is to it.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2014-12-16 09:51:26 UTC
Congratulations to 24IC and the other Imperial affiliates on their victory, I hope that lasting security can now be achieved in the region.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#163 - 2014-12-16 10:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Because you do sanction it. Because it's literally so trivial to prove that it could be done in ten minutes if anyone with sufficient standings were to go to a level 2 security agent anywhere in Minmatar space and recover the requisite documents.


What does this prove?

No one has denied that it happens. We know it happens. It's wrong but it happens.

But it is not sanctioned. It is not legal. What, you think the fact that they have Imperial Navy tags means that the Navy okayed it? All it means is that the perpetrators are members of the Imperial Navy and therefore it is the Imperial Navy that must take a hard look at itself and purge the corrupt from its ranks.

How many times do I have to say it? These things are illegal under the interstellar law to which we agreed and signed, and when it happens it needs to be stopped. It is not good, it is not okay, and we ourselves hunt these traitors too.

Our most vile demon is the Deceiver. To lie, to break our word, that is one of the greatest sins in Amarr. Those who act in defiance of our word are disgracing themselves and they are disgracing Amarr.

Quote:
I want the Amarr Empire to admit that it doesn't have a divine right to conquer or rule the cosmos. I want the Amarr to renounce the reclaiming. I want the Amarr to stay inside their own borders. I want the Amarr to treat other races as equals, not as inferiors and potential servants. Until this happens, I will continue to rebuff any effort whatsoever they make to do otherwise - with force, if neccessary.


The Amarr have a divine mandate to conquer, though conquering can take many forms that do not require swords or lasers. But to renounce the Reclaiming is to renounce God. What you are demanding is not for Amarr to act in a way you consider decent, but for us to discard and spit on everything that we are. That will never happen. We must work to stop the things that are wrong, like the swelling of heresy and crime and atrocity that has happened across the cluster since the start of the empyrean age, but we will not stop the things that are not wrong.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#164 - 2014-12-16 10:17:23 UTC
Shut up. Everybody is in the wrong. We've seen this argument hashed out so many times I expect most of us can repeat it by rote. Literally very major group in the cluster has done something that the others can point at and claim moral superiority. Repetitive arguments on a glorified message board are not going to suddenly prove that one viewpoint is right and, by god, how had we not seen this all along?!

For the sake of your own blood pressure, just stop.

Go suck on some drop or something equally useful.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Ridha Shakir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2014-12-16 10:31:02 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:


But it is not sanctioned. It is not legal. What, you think the fact that they have Imperial Navy tags means that the Navy okayed it? All it means is that the perpetrators are members of the Imperial Navy and therefore it is the Imperial Navy that must take a hard look at itself and purge the corrupt from its ranks.


How do you get this deep insight into what is sanctioned or not? Does the Navy send it's weekly plans to you to be sanctioned by you? If yes - respect! If no - keep closing your eyes and ears to reality. It won't just go away though.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#166 - 2014-12-16 10:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Because it breaks our laws. Our laws do not sanction those activities. Ergo, they are not sanctioned.
Darc Kaahar
Space Men
#167 - 2014-12-16 10:57:12 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Tell that to the families of the hundreds of thousands of dead Navymen in Algogille.


Exactly, peanuts.


John Revenent wrote:
Although late. On behalf of the Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive, I wish to congratulate our allied pilots within Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris and those loyal to the Amarr Empire for their victory. It is indeed an accomplishment.


Thank you for your heartfelt congratulations, it means a lot. I'll relay it to the team.


It's fair to say that this monumental achievement would never have happened without the efforts of the brave pilots of PY-RE. So, therefore I would like to extend my sincere congratulations to you and your team, Desiderya.

Well done you glorious sky gods. Well done.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#168 - 2014-12-16 11:46:04 UTC
That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2014-12-16 11:50:50 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
But it is not sanctioned. It is not legal. What, you think the fact that they have Imperial Navy tags means that the Navy okayed it? All it means is that the perpetrators are members of the Imperial Navy and therefore it is the Imperial Navy that must take a hard look at itself and purge the corrupt from its ranks.

Then you should purge the entire Amarr Civil Service as well, and the Court Chamberlain, and the Ministry of War, and probably kill some of your Heirs too, because you can find documents from almost every single Amarrian authority sanctioning these raids if you go digging in the wreckage of the camps.

They might be illegal according to CONCORD, but they most certainly are sanctioned. Either that or everyone in your entire Empire has absolutely no idea what anyone else in it is doing. Either these raids are sanctioned, or the Empire is in a state of complete, all-consuming bureaucratic paralysis that means no information on anything is known further away than the desk in which it is collated on.

Samira Kernher wrote:
The Amarr have a divine mandate to conquer, though conquering can take many forms that do not require swords or lasers. But to renounce the Reclaiming is to renounce God.

If you cannot renounce the Reclaiming without renouncing God, then renounce God. You most certainly do not have a divine mandate to conquer. You do not have a divine mandate to do anything - and yes, until the Amarr admit that and accept it, I will keep doing what I do. And if it requires it, I will do it with force.

Unless the Amarr Empire changes, Samira, there are only two possible outcomes - the Amarr Empire and all within it will be burnt to sterile ash, or the same will happen to the rest of the universe. There can't be peace with the Amarr Empire, not really, because the Amarr will not, and seemingly cannot accept that people have absolutely no interest in being ruled by them or following their religion, and we will resist it until our dying breath. We do not wish to be a part of your culture. We will resist it culturally, we will resist in politically, and if neccessary we will resist it with as much force as is neccessary. If there is no other option than the utter destruction of the Amarr Empire, we will do it. I know the Minmatar would not hesitate. If the Caldari believed you posed a dire threat to their cultural or political independence and your utter destruction was their only chance at freedom, I know they would not hesitate either. You are probably talking to a man whose society would have among it the most hesitant to engage in the full-scale obliteration of another civilization. But I do not think that the Federation is so hesitant that in a choice between its own destruction and your destruction they would meekly lay down and accept oblivion.

The Minmatar Republic will never be your slaves again - as I have said previously, they would die first and as they were doing so, they would take as many of you with them as they can. The Caldari State's principle of "Never Again" does not just apply to the Federation - I have seen many capsuleers loyal to the State not-so-politely remind Amarrians that the State will not be bowed by any external force. The Federation of course, has blessedly never had to deal with a danger so severe that it threatens its continued existence - but I know that maintaining the Federation's core values is a difficult enough task in times of peace and tranquility, which are increasingly rare. I hope I never have to see the Federation driven to extremity - and that is a hope that every sane individual in the cluster should share with me. The Jove? Well, who knows what they think - if, indeed, there are any of them left to think - but they gave you an answer to your attempt to force them into bondage once.

If the Amarr cannot accept that we will never let ourselves be a part of the Empire, that we will never worship your god and that we will never submit ourselves to your culture, there will be war. There will be war upon war, and though at times there may be the illusion of peace, it will only be breathing room for the next conflict. The Amarr will not subvert our culture through deception or conversion, and so it must try to bring us to heel by force. We will die before we surrender, and so either you must destroy us or we must destroy you.

The Amarr will have ultimate victory over a desolate world utterly devoid of the people they sought to conquer, or they will have oblivion. This is the only result of continuing to believe in the divine mandate.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#170 - 2014-12-16 11:55:53 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
The Federation aren't conducting slave raids.


They are simply detaining POWs in illegal black facilities where they are subjected to Maker knows what with little hope of eventual release.

Your concern for your countrymen is touching, though.

Tuulinen-haan, Mr. Stitcher is a traitor, you shouldn't expect from him any feelings towards our countrymen. He isn't Caldari anymore. He even hides from doing Caldari duty in some Maker-forsaken wormhole and pirates against neutral haulers. I believe a "gurista" would be a proper term for him.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#171 - 2014-12-16 11:57:30 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:

Go suck on some drop or something equally useful.

Selling, buying, holding in posession, transporting or consuming narcotics is illegal.
Please refrain from committing or asking others to commit prohibited actions.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#172 - 2014-12-16 12:15:13 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:

Go suck on some drop or something equally useful.

Selling, buying, holding in posession, transporting or consuming narcotics is illegal.
Please refrain from committing or asking others to commit prohibited actions.


Oh boo hoo.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#173 - 2014-12-16 12:17:32 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
....a lot of words on why Amarr's imperialism is bad and how it is wrong to break treaties and take over other peoples' worlds and do bad things to the people who live there....


(quote condensed for brevity)


So we can expect the Federation to move out of Black Rise...when?





Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2014-12-16 12:29:09 UTC
Jukko Riis wrote:
B-b-but the Federation...!

I literally just addressed this.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Anslo
Scope Works
#175 - 2014-12-16 12:33:22 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:

Go suck on some drop or something equally useful.

Selling, buying, holding in posession, transporting or consuming narcotics is illegal.
Please refrain from committing or asking others to commit prohibited actions.


Oh boo hoo.

Rrrrrrrrip

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#176 - 2014-12-16 13:04:21 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
The Federation aren't conducting slave raids.


They are simply detaining POWs in illegal black facilities where they are subjected to Maker knows what with little hope of eventual release.

Your concern for your countrymen is touching, though.


That's entirely deserving of condemnation, I agree. And if this were a conversation about that subject I'd happily weigh in and voice my concern for our fellow Caldari.

But, that's not what we're discussing right now. What we're discussing right now is illegal Amarrian slave raids, and if we get sidetracked onto a different subject - however similar it may be, and however worthy that subject may be to discuss in its own right - then that just means that Blake's tu quoque will have succeeded in distracting us.

If we want to start discussing what the Federation gets up to, sure. I'll pitch in like I have so many times before. But let's do that in its own thread, is what I'm saying, rather than allowing these Amarrian distraction tactics to work again.

Andreus Ixiris wrote:
you should purge the entire Amarr Civil Service as well, and the Court Chamberlain, and the Ministry of War, and probably kill some of your Heirs too, because you can find documents from almost every single Amarrian authority sanctioning these raids if you go digging in the wreckage of the camps.

They might be illegal according to CONCORD, but they most certainly are sanctioned.


The more accurate term might be "authorised". Somebody with the authority to do so has given the order, whether or not they are sanctioned by the highest authorities or by interstellar law.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#177 - 2014-12-16 13:11:03 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Jukko Riis wrote:
B-b-but the Federation...!

I literally just addressed this.



Ah, I see.

The whole "Scorched Worlds" campaign by your government is completely irrelevant and in no way makes you a hypocrite because we're supposed to be discussing the Amarr and what horrible things they do.

The horrible things YOU do make no difference and you're exempt from criticism because, AMARR.

Got it.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#178 - 2014-12-16 13:14:34 UTC
the funny thing about hypocrisy is that it doesn't actually reduce the validity of any arguments made against other wrong-doing. It's perfectly valid for pirates to feel nothing but contempt for slavers.

Andreus isn't suggesting that the Federation is exempt from criticism. What he's saying is one thing at a time.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#179 - 2014-12-16 13:19:01 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:


Go suck on some drop or something equally useful.


Personally I prefer blue pill or crystal egg for my recreational drug use. They go so much better with smooth jazz.

The last time I had a hit of drop it was quite the bad trip. I think I left one secretary with a dislocated jaw and a fractured rib while the other I nearly asphyxiated with a silk stocking - and not in the proper erotic asphyxiation either.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2014-12-16 13:24:28 UTC
Jukko Riis wrote:
The whole "Scorched Worlds" campaign by your government is completely irrelevant

Yes, because firstly, I've never heard of it, and secondly, this thread isn't about the Federation.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.