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Turn Faction LP into Faction Currency, then let us trade it!
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PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#1 - 2014-12-15 17:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
The Market in eve is fantastic, but it's missing some currency markets. We already have a form of localized currency in the faction LP. You could easily rename these (or just leave it as is) as local currencies (think Amarr debloons, or Thucker Marks, or Sansha Kroners, or whatever flavor text you want).

The idea being that let us trade said LP /currency for ISK, or for other currencies. This would work great for Aurum as well, and we could see a whole new section of the market opening up.
Old Man Parmala
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-12-15 18:13:31 UTC
Trading LP of one type for another would be nice...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-15 18:21:02 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
The Market in eve is fantastic, but it's missing some currency markets. We already have a form of localized currency in the faction LP. You could easily rename these (or just leave it as is) as local currencies (think Amarr debloons, or Thucker Marks, or Sansha Kroners, or whatever flavor text you want).

The idea being that let us trade said LP /currency for ISK, or for other currencies. This would work great for Aurum as well, and we could see a whole new section of the market opening up.


You can already do that with a medium called items. Your idea would only make it so we don't have to haul stuff as LP are "stocked" in the journal. You can't gank someone for his LP but you can for his data cores.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#4 - 2014-12-15 18:40:36 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PinkKnife wrote:
The Market in eve is fantastic, but it's missing some currency markets. We already have a form of localized currency in the faction LP. You could easily rename these (or just leave it as is) as local currencies (think Amarr debloons, or Thucker Marks, or Sansha Kroners, or whatever flavor text you want).

The idea being that let us trade said LP /currency for ISK, or for other currencies. This would work great for Aurum as well, and we could see a whole new section of the market opening up.


You can already do that with a medium called items. Your idea would only make it so we don't have to haul stuff as LP are "stocked" in the journal. You can't gank someone for his LP but you can for his data cores.



Using Items as a medium, while allowing for ganking, doesn't really facilitate the functionality of trading directly. You can't take an aggregate score of an entire faction's LP worth in a glance, and each item functions and fluctuates on it's own merit, not on the merits of the currency itself.

You might look and see, Navy Apocs being used and thus Amarr LP should be super high, but that doesn't represent the actuality of the entire IN line of items.

It's like having 200 different mini-currencies for each faction, and it doesn't at all represent what an actual faction currency would be.

You'd still have items to move around and gank, as those would still be carried and sold as they might out perform/under perform an individual market.

So, for example, you run Amarr FW, and want to cash in some 120K LP. You can do it in amarr where the rate of trade is something like 1.2:1 since lots of people cash out there, or you can go to say Jita and get .8:1 for your LP.

You might make some decent isk off that, but then that represents the entire LP's worth. You might find that Navy heatsinks get you .5:1 however, and those must still be purchased in Amarr space, and hauled to jita for the profit. Where as something useless like, small Navy armor reps, might get you 3:1 in exchange.

Does that clarify? Or at least illustrate that a currency/LP direct trade wouldn't negate the need for hauling and inter-station trading.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#5 - 2014-12-15 18:43:43 UTC
Loyalty Points are a reward for your loyalty. They allow you to purchase special items because you are a special person. I'm not a special person, so why should I be allowed to purchase items from the secret store for special people?

Oh god.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#6 - 2014-12-15 18:45:34 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Loyalty Points are a reward for your loyalty. They allow you to purchase special items because you are a special person. I'm not a special person, so why should I be allowed to purchase items from the secret store for special people?


Hence why I suggested renaming them, or did you not catch that part?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-12-15 18:49:57 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PinkKnife wrote:
The Market in eve is fantastic, but it's missing some currency markets. We already have a form of localized currency in the faction LP. You could easily rename these (or just leave it as is) as local currencies (think Amarr debloons, or Thucker Marks, or Sansha Kroners, or whatever flavor text you want).

The idea being that let us trade said LP /currency for ISK, or for other currencies. This would work great for Aurum as well, and we could see a whole new section of the market opening up.


You can already do that with a medium called items. Your idea would only make it so we don't have to haul stuff as LP are "stocked" in the journal. You can't gank someone for his LP but you can for his data cores.



Using Items as a medium, while allowing for ganking, doesn't really facilitate the functionality of trading directly. You can't take an aggregate score of an entire faction's LP worth in a glance, and each item functions and fluctuates on it's own merit, not on the merits of the currency itself.

You might look and see, Navy Apocs being used and thus Amarr LP should be super high, but that doesn't represent the actuality of the entire IN line of items.

It's like having 200 different mini-currencies for each faction, and it doesn't at all represent what an actual faction currency would be.

You'd still have items to move around and gank, as those would still be carried and sold as they might out perform/under perform an individual market.

So, for example, you run Amarr FW, and want to cash in some 120K LP. You can do it in amarr where the rate of trade is something like 1.2:1 since lots of people cash out there, or you can go to say Jita and get .8:1 for your LP.

You might make some decent isk off that, but then that represents the entire LP's worth. You might find that Navy heatsinks get you .5:1 however, and those must still be purchased in Amarr space, and hauled to jita for the profit. Where as something useless like, small Navy armor reps, might get you 3:1 in exchange.

Does that clarify? Or at least illustrate that a currency/LP direct trade wouldn't negate the need for hauling and inter-station trading.


The LP trade value would balance at a value like it does now. Items not worth the hassle just don't get bought and you see the funny things like faction guns having ridiculous prices for what they can achieve. If the best ISK/LP any items on the Amarr store was 1k, the amarr LP would also trade very close to 1k/lp. Selling your LP in Amarr or Jita would make no difference as you could "haul" them in a noobship or even a pod at no risk because you can't lose LP. Nobody would buy LP at a higher price elsewhere since there is no point to do so. Traveling with faction items make buying them at one palce over another somewhat valuable. Doing so with LP is useless.
virgofire
Vay Mining Corporation
#8 - 2014-12-15 19:01:05 UTC
No
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#9 - 2014-12-15 19:15:47 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


The LP trade value would balance at a value like it does now. Items not worth the hassle just don't get bought and you see the funny things like faction guns having ridiculous prices for what they can achieve. If the best ISK/LP any items on the Amarr store was 1k, the amarr LP would also trade very close to 1k/lp. Selling your LP in Amarr or Jita would make no difference as you could "haul" them in a noobship or even a pod at no risk because you can't lose LP. Nobody would buy LP at a higher price elsewhere since there is no point to do so. Traveling with faction items make buying them at one palce over another somewhat valuable. Doing so with LP is useless.


I think you underestimate how lazy people are. While yes, you COULD just fly out and trade the LP directly, if you're talking Sansha or Thucker LP, that's a bit of a journey, and people are lazy, hence why trade hubs as a whole exists and command premiums (or discounts) over other stations.

If it's between making 200m here and now, or flying out to Great WIldlands or Stain for 210m, I'm going to sit here and call it a day.

You also assume the people only buy/haul faction mods for liquidation, which also isn't true.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-12-15 19:22:54 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


The LP trade value would balance at a value like it does now. Items not worth the hassle just don't get bought and you see the funny things like faction guns having ridiculous prices for what they can achieve. If the best ISK/LP any items on the Amarr store was 1k, the amarr LP would also trade very close to 1k/lp. Selling your LP in Amarr or Jita would make no difference as you could "haul" them in a noobship or even a pod at no risk because you can't lose LP. Nobody would buy LP at a higher price elsewhere since there is no point to do so. Traveling with faction items make buying them at one palce over another somewhat valuable. Doing so with LP is useless.


I think you underestimate how lazy people are. While yes, you COULD just fly out and trade the LP directly, if you're talking Sansha or Thucker LP, that's a bit of a journey, and people are lazy, hence why trade hubs as a whole exists and command premiums (or discounts) over other stations.

If it's between making 200m here and now, or flying out to Great WIldlands or Stain for 210m, I'm going to sit here and call it a day.

You also assume the people only buy/haul faction mods for liquidation, which also isn't true.


The one that deal with LP fly them for liquidation or they would not take them to Jita. The one flying said mods for usage will buy them wherever they are and most likely are too lazy to buy your LP to then convert them into mods they then have to haul to their deployment zone. There is no gain from being able to buy LP instead of items for the users unless they somehow happen to live in the right corp station.
virgofire
Vay Mining Corporation
#11 - 2014-12-15 19:23:00 UTC
So you are saying that since its hard to get certain types of LP items, CCP should made it easier for you by allowing the LP to be bought and traded?

Ummmm No
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#12 - 2014-12-15 19:34:04 UTC
LP transfer contracts
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2625458#post2625458

would be awesome yeah

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-12-15 22:03:38 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
LP transfer contracts
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2625458#post2625458

would be awesome yeah


If you found who wants to buy your LPs, you can trade them the LP store items directly so there is no need to trade the LPs.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#14 - 2014-12-15 22:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
A new item that can be cross-converted is the only way I'd support this, as you'd still have to haul that item to move it.

Basically an LP token. You can convert LP into the tokens and convert the tokens back into LP.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#15 - 2014-12-15 22:27:01 UTC
Yes

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-12-15 22:36:28 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
A new item that can be cross-converted is the only way I'd support this, as you'd still have to haul that item to move it.

Basically an LP token. You can convert LP into the tokens and convert the tokens back into LP.


Only if the token can only be redeemed inside a station where that corp's LP store is. No fly to Jita with LP in journal, transfer to token, put token on matket, buy token, transfer in LP, fly to station with LP in journal and then buy stuff on LP store.
voetius
Grundrisse
#17 - 2014-12-15 22:38:13 UTC

I'm not sure how you envisage it working but if it was something like a market where you could place buy and sellorders for LP of specific corporations, or somehow set exchange rates I can't really see what the problem would be.

It would address one thing that is brought up often, that of clearing small amounts of LP off the Journal as a sort of tidy up / clean up thing and would be quite cool IMO.

I support the general idea but would like to see how it might be implemented as EVE players are quite good at finding ways to manipulate systems, and while there isn't anything wrong with that per se, it can make a system unworkable or have bad side effects (think of the old Bounty System that was generally perceived as completely useless).
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-12-15 22:39:16 UTC
No on every level, if LP could be traded all it would do is devalue all LP, the whole point of the loyalty store is to be a reward for services rendered, fi you want Sansha LP, go do sansha missions in Sansha space, you shouldnt get the reward without the risk

as for buying the item bought with LP, thats fine because your risking that item not even being for sale in the ISK market (in exchange for the safety of not having to go to null to farm it)

so again, no, risk/reward, working as intended, not even WoW went this easy-mode
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-12-15 22:41:56 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
not even WoW went this easy-mode


It did from day 1. It's called bind on equip items. Let someone else take the punishment of doing high-end raiding and buy his loot for in-game gold.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-12-15 23:33:00 UTC
Trade loyalty points? How about... No
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