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POS Sounding Board on December 18th

First post First post
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#1 - 2014-12-14 21:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Kyle
Corbexx and I have been putting together soundboards. These are a small group of players discussing a topic with CCP Developers listening in. This provides a player viewpoints, problem solving, and priority list, as well as usage case, and opinion for them.

There have already been sounding boards on wormholes, wormhole PvE, General PvE, and one is scheduled for clothing. We are now moving into POS. Announced on the o7 show a survey will soon be released about POS. We have sat down with CCP to see if they would also like a soundboard to discuss POS. They have agreed.

This is a general signup. Our soundboards are first come first serve. This is also hopefully the first of several depending on what particular issues come up during the discussion.

This is a very fast turn around with the holidays coming up. We're looking to run this:

December 18th at 1800 Eve time.

With the positive feedback and great interaction of the previous soundboards Corbexx and I are hoping to run several more of these over the next few months for other issues and areas in the game.

Edit: Here is the recording.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Zara Arran
Overload This
#2 - 2014-12-14 21:23:31 UTC
I'd love to be there (and was forced by corbexx to post).
Traba Regina
Serene Vendetta
#3 - 2014-12-14 21:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Traba Regina
Looking forward to this.. :D

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2014-12-14 21:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
I'm in.

I just wanna my space jumping castle among stars.

Invalid signature format

Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#5 - 2014-12-14 21:51:55 UTC
I won't be around for the live discussion.

My two cents:

The current POS mechanics require roles to process moo goo into more useful materials. POS roles are rarely given to line members in larger groups due to security concerns.

A valuable change would be a new method of moon goo refining that allowed the average line member to participate, similar to the way PI works. It would open up the market and allow low and null to be more self-sufficient. Corps and alliances could make the base moo goo available to friendly pilots, preserving overall income.
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-12-14 21:54:16 UTC
Working night, so no show for me. Have fun though, and thanks for organizing this.

Highest on my list: Personal SMA's,

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#7 - 2014-12-14 22:07:59 UTC
I will not be able to attend, and I have no experience in the day to day management of POS infrastructure.
However as a user, One thing I would like to see is a simple personal POS (not corp managed) for longer trips away from home, as a temporary base.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2014-12-15 00:01:53 UTC
raises hand

/does best Horseshack interpetation

If you don't know who horseshack was......
Enta en Bauldry
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-12-15 08:17:03 UTC
CCP Nullarbor
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2014-12-15 16:48:46 UTC
I will be joining this and recording it for my team. Your input is much appreciated.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Rohas Shepard
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-12-15 17:23:50 UTC
I will join. I have few ideas to introduce regarding POS'es.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#12 - 2014-12-15 17:51:45 UTC
Wish I could be there but will be on plane at that time. I can just put down 4 items that need to be touched upon and remade.

1) personal ship maintenance array. This needs to be addressed, and can be done in multiple ways, from personal pos's to an updated storage mechanic. Just having a new sma probably won't work because of the issues with the personal cha. Ultimately people want their own pos, they just don't want to pay for it :-). I have no answer to this, I just know that storage of ships has to be more finite, least for wormhole space which is my main concern here

2) silo's. The online offline mechanic prevents a lot of people from experimenting with that section of industrial gameplay. This needs to be made simpler, and needs to be opened up for everybody to access.

3) more roles need to be added so people and pos modules can be split up based on role access. It also needs to be flexible.

4) all anchoring and weapon mods need to be redone. We really shouldn't have to worry about anchoring anything but the pos. this can be addressed in two ways. When the pos is anchored, you should be able to just open up the main pos window, drop a set of mods (let's say 10 ecm pos mods), and the pos distribute and auto anchors them, one at a time, then once all anchored, begin onlining them one at a time until they are all online. No need for people to distribute mods or find anchor points, the pos just does it automatically. this removes a needless, tedious work of setting pos's up. Also, since the pos anchors stuff automatically, it should be able to offline and I anchor stuff automatically, and tractor that weapon mod to the pos itself for collection.

Fast, simple. To unanchor the pos, you'd have to suck all the mods in and remove them. Or you could just abandon the pos itself and forget the mods if you like. In other words, simplify it a bit. Yes people won't be able to make pos decorations or the Borge cube anymore. But whatever.

Honestly, I would go from the ground up, remake the entire pos program (create it a new), and offer people a choice of which pos to use, the old or the new. Leave the old one as ancient relic with no updates, and give a bonus for using the new one (such as reduced fuel block requirements to coax people to come over.

It all depends on what you want to do though, but honestly trying to enhance the old pos code... You might just want to write a whole new pos setup and offer people both, as people move to new pos's, eventually you can remove the old one entirely (unless people have 8 year old pos's.

I'm just brainstorming atm though.


Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-12-15 18:02:44 UTC
This topic is pretty important to me, so just in case I miss it, here's my one thing that would make my life easier:

If you're in space and in range of the pos, you can open up your inventory and see pos modules on the left side of the dialog. Each pos module has a little icon before its name. Could the online/offline status of the pos module put a flag or checkmark or something on that icon indicating its online/offline status? When you offline a module, this part of the pane redraws anyways, so adding a flag or icon to indicate online/offline status shouldn't be too difficult.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#14 - 2014-12-15 18:41:48 UTC
While not a POS heavyweight, I've done both booster production in k-space and lived in a POS in w-space. I'd be interested in tagging along.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

#15 - 2014-12-15 18:55:01 UTC
I'm certainly gonna miss this AND i'm not at all an expert on POS mechanics, some i'm gonna talk about esthetics and crazy stuff ahead of time...

I wish a POS and it's modules where more of a single modular building.

Could be similar to the system used for assembling T3 ships, POSes would look different depending on what is fitted to them. because floating object in space dont look too good anymore.

Docking at a POS would be an excellent feature aswell, as in having a real station-like environment, maybe more precarious looking, but still :)

I'm not gonna say POS - specific captain's quarters because of my fear of jita riots, but hey... if you had to open a door somewhere... it could be a simple meeting room accessible to people docked at the POS. (warned ya about the crazy stuff)

Also MOST IMPORTANT there needs to be a bridge between deployables like the mobile depot and the POS. Maybe something in between the two that can house a ship inside a bubble, for the occasionnal nomadic people and small corps on the move?

Idea It would be very very interesting to see the recent deployable structures integrated into the POS rethink. Idea

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#16 - 2014-12-15 19:14:48 UTC
Just out of curiosity, since replies to this thread are all over the place, is there an intention to focus on so-called "little things," or maybe a step up from that? or is there room for big ideas, new concepts, etc.?

The elephant in the room will be the corporation interface, and specifically roles.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#17 - 2014-12-15 19:20:38 UTC
This is us discussing what we do and what we want. Don't limit yourselves. The devs listen in. It is not to bounce questions off of them but to discuss and debate with each other so that they see where we are and what we want, how we think, why we think it, what we do and don't agree about, and etc. If we need more sessions for focused subjects Corbexx and I will make that happen.

So far these talks have gone super well. I moderate to keep the convo going if were talking on in circles and to stop bickering. Its very laid back and so far successful.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Net 7
#18 - 2014-12-15 19:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
I'll be working but I'm gonna toss this in:

The hanger roles in general are a huge pain to deal with, it makes it difficult to get a lot of people to live in an area with no stations.

The reaction mechanic also is a pain, it takes too long to setup and too many random little bugs make it annoying, like when you set yoru chains and hit apply the pos loses the chain info and you have to redo this all again.

To the guy above me who said that having roles for moon sucks, I personally think pos' should NOT be mining moon goo. This needs to stop, and shift to an active mining system.

Having multiple arrays to build stuff is a pita. If I have an x-large ship assembly array why can't I make every ship at that point? Why do I need a small, medium, large, and X-L? If I have the cpu and pg and want to build everything it should be able to, and if I don't then I can drop down to a lower tier array.

I think pos' should become more like a T3 ship. In that you buy the structure, and have slots that you can attach things it and mix and match based on number of slots. Adding things give more pg/cpu or use it. so you can chose different setups and make the mechanic easier to use. but anyway, i'll be looking forward to any notes posted.

Edit Note:

I'll add what I do with a pos.

I used to use it to refine ore, till I realized that the refining array was the biggest waste of time there was. This has sense been repaired in crius, but for the record, the 3 hour reaction time for 1/3 of the ore was a stupid mechanic.

I react wh gas and moon goo in it (in the past I ran 30 pos' for this propose) The reaction mechanic has a lot of issues, is time consuming to setup and check, and is not very intuitive.

I make t3 ships in a pos. Much like the reaction mechianic, it takes a lot fo structures to actually build a T3 in a wh or at a pos, not only do you have to react gas and refine ore, but you need a lab to RE the relics, then you need a component array to make the parts, then you need a subsystem array to build the ships, and now witht he confessor you need an advanced ship array to build them... I never understood the logic of why all this was so complicated, when you could of simplified with a single lab, a single manufacturing plant with various inprovments base don activity. I.e. one that is designed to give a bonus to reactions but can build anything, one with a bonus to drones but can build anything, etc. This would turn something like 10 different sctructures into 3.

Before fuel blocks, fuel tracking was my biggest complaint. There was no simple way to tell what was low from a cry mail unless you did math. If you had 30 pos' crying... it was very easy to mix up fuels, and miss feed the wrong pos. This used to take me hours upon hours upon hours to deal with. Biggest thank you ccp ever when you fixed this.

The targeting and weapons systems on pos are not that great. Its fairly easy for a sub cap fleet of a few ships to RF a tower in no time. You can set it up to make people decide to not shoot you, but again, its still an easy matter to tank and RF.

I have toher gripes but a lot have been fixed recently, so I guess that will do

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#19 - 2014-12-15 20:01:02 UTC
Regarding the moon mining thing. I have to agree with the above op that it should be turned into an active mining. Originally thought the rorqual should do it.

Get a rorqual, find a moon, mine it. Every hour of mining gives you a day of moon goop, up to 5 days. Call it moon shock or something. Heck even give the moon a giant countdown till it can be resources again. It's a bit of a rediculous idea, but we have escorts and mining ops, why not moon draining ops. It moves the resource from pos networks over to an active guy sucking moon goop with a ship. Call it advanced mining. Timings can be changed as needed but I always had some idea like that.

But this is a pos thread not a rorqual thread, and I don't mean to derail it.

Pos roles hashed out
A way for people to have micro individual pos's based on the mother pos
Better security
Easy distribution of weapons and pos mods.


Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-12-15 20:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
I will be there too probably if time allows.

So far the only thing POS related I DID NOT used is moon mining. Apart from that I used probably every single element of pos interface in multiple scenarios and runned a WH corp for a long time and struggled with way to accommodate 50+ people on as little poses as possible.
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