EVE General Discussion

I like miners. There would not be much eve without them. I do in fact have a mining alt, and mine a good amount. It's just that sometimes I am completely unable to resist the urge to see if I can make a mining ship go 'pop' before the police arrive. I generally have a hauler on standby in case there is undamaged wares/ore in the wreck, so it's not even a completely senseless act of random violence.

Eh, I dunno. I'd advocate working with a group to ensure safety and better ensure your own success. But I get what you're going for here.

And yeah, telling folks they have to work together when all they want to do is be solo....that'll get you some hate. F*** those people.

It makes no sense to truly hate somebody for whatever he does in the game. I don't even hate my immediate enemies. That emotion is reserved for real ********* in real life, like politicians and sectarian warmongers. I do have a strong dislike for certain personality traits that happen to be most prevalent in clueless highsec players.

I once FC-ed a T1 cruiser roam which was open to blues and this guy comes on TS, whom I had never met. His first question? 'Do I get paid for being on this fleet?' I tell him that's not the case and he says 'ok I'll go mining then'. Good grief. Sure, go mine before you lose a ship your corp won't reimburse, god forbid you lose a Vexor. Do you want reimbursement with that?

It's a certain attitude people find annoying, and not the act of mining in and of itself. If you can mine without turning into a clueless AFKer all power to you.

There are people that hate anyone doing pve, why because they think they have everything already and can't understand why everyone else does not.

But lets take this to its logical conclusion.

All mining stops. what happens the existing minerals on the market go through the roof , massively increasing the prices of the ships pvpers use, making them very risk adverse, thus slowing active pvp down a lot.

Now one step more. ah yes Missions/ incusions/sites and Ratting now must stop as...oh yer hate on pve.

No more income and no more minerals added to the market, making existing ships and modules skyrocket in price.

If you stop PVE you will have no more PVP unless you enjoy running around trying to dodge swarms of velators.

I mine too, and sure i get ganked at times, but i don't think that player hates me or what i do. Eve is the ultimate game of Opportunity Knocks. Eve is practically all PvP jsut to different degrees of destruction.

.) Most miners play a more active game than you do prancing around looking for fights.
Try mining in a proper fleet with a Covetor/Hulk (supposedly good for fleet ops, downright suck at it, but that's not the point) - your ore hold overflows more often than you can spew a can, rocks pop like candy, and you have to constantly monitor local for clueless characters like you. It's a game I personally can't keep up with for more than 1 hour without breaks, it's like tetris - routine but constant challenge. And it gets faster as you work through the bigger rocks and only the small number of small ones remain.

.) Enjoying mining is the same as enjoying any other minigame. Some like the hacking one. Some like opening the loot pinatas. Saying fleet mining cannot be enjoyable is wrong. It's a game where you work with other people, watch mineral scans to break the cycle at the right time, avoid rocks someone else is drilling, avoid ore hold overflows, and remember that under proper booster cycles are a lot faster than a guy clueless about mining might think. Maximum youtube breaks are about 30 seconds if you're managing ONE miner. Most do more.

.) Mining for ISK died once Odyssey aka DUMBING DOWN MINING GANK UPDATE rolled out, which opened gravimetric sites for bot fleets and thus ruined the last source of ISK for miner. Also it dumbed down the miner ganking to the point it became the easies activity in all Eve, and clueless people who were previously failing at everything could now become CODE. and have 50% proficiency at this 100% fool-proof pastime.

cross-point: People who solo mine watching youtube are getting an income which is currently under 10m/hour. I suggest leaving them alone. They are already punished by Odyssey and Crius enough.

.) Tanking your mining ship is STUPID. Yes, I mean it. Last time I dared leet peeveepee player to give me a tanked barge fit which didn't suck, he provided me with a Mackinaw fit worth 30mil in tank fittings, which could tank 2 destroyers if they are good, 3 destroyers of average undergrads, or 4 CODE. destroyers, while being almost exact match in yield to the Retriever (a bit below if you don't have Exhumers V, which is arguably a waste of a month). Minding the fact that you can replace 6-7 retrievers for the cost of that mack, I branded it as one of them ******** blings that never pays off and gives no real advantage where it matters, and to date I haven't seen any tanked barge fit actually worth flying over untanked one. The only ones who can mine tanked (read "mine ice") are the Procurer and the Skiff, and the latter takes 40 to 100 hours to pay off, which in my eyes make it a ******** bling as well. Thus, a conclusion to this debate is that there are no mining ships worth tanking. Because retriever, covetor, mackinaw and hulk can tank 1 extra destroyer at best (unless you bling-tank and ask for it), while Procurer and Skiff are more tanky than former without any yield sacrifice.

.) The mineral prices point didn't fit in previous post, so I put it here.

The point of ISK profit in mining is that when mineral prices are low, you get less money than professions that do not include minerals!

That means:
You get less than ratters. Currently they make at least 1mil/minute, top miner on top roid makes 500k/minute, minus logistics, compression pos, and hauling.
You get less than mission runners. Those are about 900k/minute in my estimate, and have a bit of downtime flying to mission spots.
You get less than incursion runners. No comments.
You get less than PI runners.
You get less than wh people, who sell blue loot to NPC.
You get less than FW people.
You get less than industrials.
You get less than traders.
You get less than red frog.
etc...

The real currency here are miner-hours. You produce them, you exchange them for isk. All the above people are not tied to them in any way, so when ISK mineral prices drop, miner-hour value drops, and you start getting less than all those people.

I dare to call anyone who does not understand that clueless.

Wardecs are not griefing by CCP's definition.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

ISboxers are not 'cheating' by CCP's definition until 15.01.15

Even then, many of them say that the new rules will have little impact on them.

Yes, they are. CCP was just gracious enough to give them a cutoff point to cease their cheating.

Personally I'd have just perma banned them all out of the blue without warning, and left the reason box blank.