Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yea, because newbies are capable of buying a 500mil set of +5s like vets can?

Fixed training speed would help newbies keep up, rather than the current system where cost and knowledge disparity gets them off to a slow start, and at best they end up matching a vet's speed.

Who uses full sets of +5s man, seriously :D

+3s in the form of Genos or pie sets, or then 2x +4s is what most PVP players use.

I know plenty of folks who PVP in 0.0 with all 10 implant slots filled, they just don't usually fly small ships. We had a fleet last week where we totally stomped the enemy. Something like 12b destroyed for 4.5b lost. Then an assault frigate pilot lost his 1.5b ISK pod. Still a nice win, but funny to see 1/4 of our losses come from one pod. I lost a nice clone like that too when I did FW and got some lag as my ship exploded.

Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose applies at all times.

And they shouldn't have bought them until they could afford to lose them. I see absolutely no problem with this.

i'm pro removal of learning implants because they are what ppl are referring to as an illusion of choice (That you pretty much have to always have some form of learning implant, not just +5's).

However, they dont stop anyone from PvP'ing unless you put too much value on SP/hour and too little value on PvP. And thats your own dumb arse fault. +3's provide almost the same training speed. Hell +2's are good enough for new players. Like Mag's, if learning implants were removed id rather it would not be replaced by some other form of booster that essentially does the same thing.

Educating players that +5's are not that important would be a better way of changing PvP attitudes.

That is correct - on that same account I have a character who almost exclusively flies Interdictors. She's maxed skilled for frigate and destroyer class ships. Groomed that way from Day 1. Her training clone sits in high sec and she clone jumps to it only if CCP adds a new frigate or destroyer related skill. As an Interdictor pilot, she dies a fair amount, so she never has implants, unless they make her ship better.

As for whether I could have used the Titan pilot in training while she was training - sure to a point. Among her prerequisite skills are Amarr Battleship V and Large Energy Turrets V. On the other hand, part of min-maxing a character means that she spent basically one year knocking out Perception/Willpower skills and one year doing Int/Mem skills. So, when on an optimal skill plan, she could sit in ships that she did not have the support skills to fly properly. Yet another reason that the attribute respec needs to go away. It works beautifully for someone who has already made a long term commitment to Eve, but it is wretched for someone exploring Eve and trying to incrementally improve their character. They either use their remaps sub optimally, or have to accept fewer SP/hour.

Lots of veterans will also manage their risk by respecializing and then injecting only the two implants they need. This works once you have a baseline of core skills. If you are the new player, however, having to train Amarr Frigate IV one day and Engineering V the next, you either defer training those skills to optimize your plan, or have a generic respec and at least four implants installed, which makes it harder to manage the risk (and is still suboptimal SP/hour). This makes it disproportionately harder on players less than six months old - who have a shotgun of skills they need to train. If they last past that six months, then they have it much easier, but we know that many players never make it that far. Additionally, with the limited access to jump clones that most new players have, jumping around to your Int/Mem clone and then back to your Perc/Will clone is not really an option.



As a new player, you are risking your future SP and incurring a proportionately much greater risk than the established veteran. Yet the ships you are expected to fly are worth a fraction of your implant value. It's the same as asking me to fly a T1 frigate in this character two weeks ago - my clones were 40m each. I could afford to lose them, but typically wouldn't bother to in anything smaller than a HAC. Asking a newbie to risk a 20-40m ISK pod (assuming a pair of +3s or +4s) to come tackle for me in his Rifter is just silly.

You should risk the stuff that gives you an immediate advantage. The most satisfying pod mail I have ever taken was a dude in his Virtue set. He was out in space risking something valuable that gave him a direct and immediate advantage. Then he ended up in my interdictor bubble in his faction fit covert ops ship. I want more pod mails like that, not some paltry two implants that only help a player be better six months from now.

Depends, I keep a learning clone I'm in right now for away periods. I also pimp clones for high sec missioning. I also maintain cheap/emptied for my null use.

Your alt is low SP so it shouldn't matter too much. There's only so much you can do with an alt of that age. The benefits afforded to actual newer players in being able to train quicker would outweigh it.

Maybe 6 months is too long. 4 months perhaps. It would also scale the same way it does now, i.e. you get less boost to SP/hour as the 4 months elapse.

How does it reward poor skill training habits and punish good ones?


It does the exact opposite.. I have to pay attention to what my skills are based on so instead of just plugging in willy nilly skills, I have to follow the path I laid out for myself if I bothered to actually spec myself.

Character attributes reward deferred gratification and skill plans that are years long. Implants represent a long term investment with no immediate reward if they are lost. If you decided in the first few hours that Eve was the game for you, then you are in the minority. Most people will get bored with high sec content and quit long before they see any benefit from a lengthy skill plan or the learning implants people encourage them to use to catch up.