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What the HELL have you done? (new UI)
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Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-09 15:12:08 UTC
I'm mad, but I'll list here some aspects of the new UI that just aren't tolerable objectively and need fixing ASAP.

It's constructive feedback, if you want it to be.

1- THE CONTEXT MENU CAN'T BE TRANSPARENT.

Who the hell thought this would be a good idea? UI transparency is useful for UI panels that sit on screen at all times. The context menu (right click) is something you bring up when you issue commands. There's no reason to make it use transparency! Tell me how the hell this is "improved readability" in your opinion:

http://www.cesspit.net/misc/uibedamned01.gif

Remove UI transparency from context menu, and do it YESTERDAY!

2- Please let us select UI fonts.

Once again, the new UI cripples readability. This is a before/after:

http://www.cesspit.net/misc/uibedamned02.gif

On the top you see the wonderful new UI, the bottom the old one. So now you tell me how a font squeezed all together "improves readability", once again? This stuff is utterly unreadable. And there's no way even fiddling in the options to bring back the fonts I had before the damned patch. I play with 90% UI scale because on the old PC I play on a old screen and need to maximize space (by the way, have you removed most scaling options? is removing options like you did with UI colors good?).

I can select font size ONLY for the context menu. Everything else is arbitrarily decided by the game, and the new UI now makes very bad decisions when selecting what font to use.

Why the hell can't you add an option that lets us manually pick all the different font sizes the UI uses, so that we can carefully select those that are readable (since apparently you can't do this)? I don't want to just select the context menu, but also the rest.

3- I like much, much better the overall look of old UI. The window frames are much uglier. The checkboxes very bad. But I guess there's no way back.

4- New map. It's a disaster:

4a. Grouping options do not work. You have to select each option twice to actually update the map. If you start jumping between them you never get the one you select actually applied.

4b. "Improved readability" once again doesn't mean you go and add more background NOISE. So, for the love of God, if you want to add some pointless nebulas and stars in the background at least do NOT do it UNTIL there's an option to REMOVE IT.

4c. LABELS. No label options.

4d. The new map is useless. For example this is the layout to show the number of pilots in every system:

http://www.cesspit.net/misc/uibedamned03.gif

In the old map on the left you can clearly see by the intensity in what system are the most players. In the new map? It's utterly useless. The new map improves UNREADABILITY to unprecedented levels.

4c. The map is complex, so you need a precise cursor to point at stars. So what you do? You replace the ARROW cursor with A BOX.

I can't show screenshots because the cursor is not captured, but it's ridiculous. How can a huge box being a better selection tool than an actual pointer? Why even the change?
Kriss Deteis
Paranoia Overload
#2 - 2014-12-09 16:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kriss Deteis
Totaly agree.

I know how it works... some Lead thinks he got inspired (by some stupid pinterest pictures), despite all graphic team has to say against it... and guess what.. you get that "inspired" UI full of cr@p.
I've seen it so many times....

There is a trend to overuse transparent and "beautifully girlish" UI (see the latest IOS and OSX Twisted )

Usually the decision is made by the leas knowledgeable people about ergonomics, psychology and human behavior specialist.
Thank you CCP for promoting a mor0n up to make these decisions!


ps. It has nothing to do with bugs... stupid decisions are not bugs.
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-09 17:40:49 UTC
Instead I'm complaining about what are essentially bugs.

I can at least work around the context menu problem by tweaking transparency, but PLEASE, I need the small font fixed.

PLEASE.

That said, you (CCP) can't tell me the new UI is "better". The old UI was elegant and very minimal. You can't go further than that with a simple reskin. There can be many styles, but they would be equal alternatives, not better.

You told us this UI redesign was necessary for new features, but the new UI is identical in functionality to the old one. Literally, the only changes are:

- Blur "feature" (that I have off since opacity is much better than a blurry mess)
- Removal of custom color
- Different window frames
- Different tabs

That's it. Now why you didn't keep the old UI as a skin option? You just can't tell me the old UI is "hard to maintain" when it works identical to the new one. There are zero structural changes. It's all cosmetic.

If you kept the old UI skin you could have collected stats, see how many users decided to stay with the new one or go back to the old one. And so make better choices in the future.

SO WHY it's not an option?
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#4 - 2014-12-09 18:13:40 UTC
ITT: People complaining about a new UI that was not announced in any way. /sarcasm

That said, it's meant to support future features, keeping the old UI would've bloated the client. And as you've said yourself, it's functionally identical to its predecessor so far, so why the posturing?
Womyn Power
Broski Bad End
#5 - 2014-12-09 18:34:05 UTC
I want dem color sliders back.

Give me the option CCP
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-12-09 18:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Stephan Scarsdale
Sirinda wrote:
keeping the old UI would've bloated the client.


I imagine the whole skin would be like, what, 2MB big at the most?

Yeah, Eve can't afford 2Mb for a skin on top of a 14Gb client.

Since it retains the exact same features and layout it really costs nothing to keep them both active. Whatever work needs to be done on current one is identical to the work to add the same to the old one. Cut & paste isn't a complex activity.

It was well worth the ten minutes of increased dev time required to keep both skins active.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2014-12-09 18:45:31 UTC
Well ye should have logged into sisi like a month ago then shouldn't ye.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-12-09 18:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Stephan Scarsdale
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Well ye should have logged into sisi like a month ago then shouldn't ye.


I'm skeptical of CCP actually using feedback (past experiences count for something). If they show they listen I might do it, in the future.

I know my frustration is probably thrown at a solid wall, sisi or otherwise. We'll see.
Shadow Raptor
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-12-09 18:51:03 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Well ye should have logged into sisi like a month ago then shouldn't ye.

Lots of people complained but it didn't do any good.

I love most of the changes but not the monochrome icons.
Rediska2
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-12-09 18:53:34 UTC
+1 to topicstarter
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-12-11 11:41:34 UTC
And the first patch fixes nothing of what I reported. I wonder why I still bother.

I need fonts and menu transparency FIXED!

It takes 2 seconds to revert the font to the one used before the patch. It's just one proof no one reads the feedback and gives a damn.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#12 - 2014-12-11 12:33:32 UTC
I tried the new UI out. Looks quite good actually.

I was even positively surprised all this new transparency going on wasn't actually impending readability. Some of the new UI-schemes are even better readable then the old one. Strange how that works.

Oops, looks like I invalidated your entire thread. Sorry about that, OP.
Measter1
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-12-11 14:26:35 UTC
Stephan Scarsdale wrote:


You told us this UI redesign was necessary for new features, but the new UI is identical in functionality to the old one. Literally, the only changes are:

- Blur "feature" (that I have off since opacity is much better than a blurry mess)
- Removal of custom color
- Different window frames
- Different tabs

That's it. Now why you didn't keep the old UI as a skin option? You just can't tell me the old UI is "hard to maintain" when it works identical to the new one. There are zero structural changes. It's all cosmetic.


Do not mistake similar appearance for similar underlying structure. There could be large changes that aren't visible.
Daniel Jackson
Universal Exos
#14 - 2014-12-11 17:11:52 UTC
you can flatten the new map you know by selecting "abstract layout"

I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-12-11 17:20:30 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Oops, looks like I invalidated your entire thread. Sorry about that, OP.


You did what?

I pointed to very specific aspects and showed them in screenshots. Nothing of what you wrote has anything to do with the problems I raised.

I think you've only demonstrated a lack of reading comprehension here.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#16 - 2014-12-11 21:06:49 UTC
Stephan Scarsdale wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Oops, looks like I invalidated your entire thread. Sorry about that, OP.


You did what?

I pointed to very specific aspects and showed them in screenshots. Nothing of what you wrote has anything to do with the problems I raised.

I think you've only demonstrated a lack of reading comprehension here.


To be a bit more verbose:

-The new map is opt-in, work-in-progress. So yeah, there are some things wrong with it. Most probably because a lot of stuff isn't even in and working right now, like probing for example. Not possible in the new map.

-Your first UI-screenshot is the most fake thing I've ever witnessed. Sure there are readability problems, because you went through great pains to position the window exactly the right way. Newsflash: What you did was possible in the old UI, too. You just had to find the right sliders. So this isn't a new problem.

-The second UI-screenshot just showcases how good the new UI-looks. Nothing to see here.
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-12-11 22:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Stephan Scarsdale
Owen Levanth wrote:
-Your first UI-screenshot is the most fake thing I've ever witnessed. Sure there are readability problems, because you went through great pains to position the window exactly the right way. Newsflash: What you did was possible in the old UI, too. You just had to find the right sliders. So this isn't a new problem.


That screenshot is taken at the same settings I used with the old UI. As far as I know the context menu never had transparency the way it has it now.

This probably because CCP UI team only tested the UI with the blur on, and with the blur on the transparency is not an issue since the text is always readable. So this is an issue of a combination with transparency levels and blur off.

It should be taken as a bug and it should be fixed ASAP.

Quote:
-The second UI-screenshot just showcases how good the new UI-looks. Nothing to see here.


The second screenshot shows a problem with the font, not the UI overall look.

They swapped the usual font with a smaller one that is not readable on the screen. Because they do not allow an user to select fonts, the only two options are either HUGE or too small to be read.

The old UI small font was much more readable, even if small. The new one is not. And it's probably because again the CCP UI team only cared to test the UI at default settings.

So I'm pointing again at what can be considered a bug, that I need fixing. Because on a small screen I need to reduce the size of the UI without having to use a font that is unreadable. The old UI had a slightly bigger font used for the small elements and there's no good reason to replace it with an unreadable one.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-12-12 22:20:37 UTC
I like it, exactly how it is. CCP don't change a thing....

I think this sounds like another AFK Cloaking complaint...
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#19 - 2014-12-14 13:49:37 UTC
Stephan Scarsdale wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
-Your first UI-screenshot is the most fake thing I've ever witnessed. Sure there are readability problems, because you went through great pains to position the window exactly the right way. Newsflash: What you did was possible in the old UI, too. You just had to find the right sliders. So this isn't a new problem.


That screenshot is taken at the same settings I used with the old UI. As far as I know the context menu never had transparency the way it has it now.

This probably because CCP UI team only tested the UI with the blur on, and with the blur on the transparency is not an issue since the text is always readable. So this is an issue of a combination with transparency levels and blur off.

It should be taken as a bug and it should be fixed ASAP.

Quote:
-The second UI-screenshot just showcases how good the new UI-looks. Nothing to see here.


The second screenshot shows a problem with the font, not the UI overall look.

They swapped the usual font with a smaller one that is not readable on the screen. Because they do not allow an user to select fonts, the only two options are either HUGE or too small to be read.

The old UI small font was much more readable, even if small. The new one is not. And it's probably because again the CCP UI team only cared to test the UI at default settings.

So I'm pointing again at what can be considered a bug, that I need fixing. Because on a small screen I need to reduce the size of the UI without having to use a font that is unreadable. The old UI had a slightly bigger font used for the small elements and there's no good reason to replace it with an unreadable one.


The old UI had a slider for that. I know this because I experimented with it and the overview and finally decided to make my overview 100% transparent because I didn't like having so much of my view into space blocked out.

On the font we just have agree to disagree, since I have the exact opposite opinion, the new font is more readable then the old.
Stephan Scarsdale
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-12-15 16:24:18 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
The old UI had a slider for that. I know this because I experimented with it and the overview and finally decided to make my overview 100% transparent because I didn't like having so much of my view into space blocked out.


Reading comprehension 101.

I'm not talking about the overview, I'm talking of the contextual menu, and obviously they are completely different things. It's the contextual menu that needs transparency removed, not every other window.

I certainly never claimed that the old UI didn't have a transparency slider.

Quote:
On the font we just have agree to disagree, since I have the exact opposite opinion, the new font is more readable then the old.


Well, maybe your alien species reads things better when all letters overlap each other. Us human beings prefer at least some spacing between letters.

The font is otherwise identical, only spacing changes.

But who cares, really? This thread proved that it's like talking at a solid wall and that CCP couldn't care less if you play at odd resolutions. So it's just me and the trolls having a fun chat.

*tumbleweed*
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