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Gankers alts VS Miners main characters gameplay

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#21 - 2014-12-07 09:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Veers Belvar wrote:
Mining is miserably boring, and it's not rational to do it at keyboard. You are better off just mining AFK and writing off losses as the cost of doing business. If you are at keyboard might as well run incursions for much more isk/hour.

Then why don't players just do that? They insist on coming to the forums and posting how ganking is broken, rather than "mining is so broken I couldn't pay attention and lost my ship".

OP, either just do what Veers said and continue mining AFK and just write the cost of your laziness off as an business expense, or buy a permit, stay at your keyboard and pay attention and then you are essentially 100% safe.

I gank with my main - my alts are just for looting and scouting. Just like practically every other facet of Eve, using alts provides extra utility. Would you have a problem if I just asked friends to scout and loot for me? Is that less objectionable to you?

I am not hiding behind anything - the mechanics favour anyone attacking me at anytime. The fact I am not out more flying more expensive ships is a direct consequence of the significant restrictions already imposed on me by the game mechanics. if you can find me, the encounter will be very much in your favour, but as it is, the mechanics do not give me much incentive, or even the ability to fly around in a "proper" PvP ship to fight you as the facpo will just show up and blow me up before you get your chance for honourable revenge.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#22 - 2014-12-07 11:59:20 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Mining is miserably boring, and it's not rational to do it at keyboard. You are better off just mining AFK and writing off losses as the cost of doing business. If you are at keyboard might as well run incursions for much more isk/hour.


I see why no one likes you now. Maybe that other guy who always goes on about EVE dying is more popular than you atm. His name eludes me.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-12-07 12:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
If you are going to play EVE, you might as well actually play it. Veers is right about that. You should engage with other players through incursions or through PVP.

Mining is an AFK activity or at least partially. You do it with your house chores, or while arguing on the forums, or watching a movie.

This is why CODE isn't taken seriously past the risk that they pose. They are recommending players actually bore themselves into quitting by staying at the keyboard, hitting d-scan and other equally ridiculous suggestions. If CODE cared about helping players they'd tell them to mine AFK and do something else when they want to stay ATK. While they do the latter... they fall flat with the former, made worse by ridiculing people who choose to sensibly do it themselves. All while CODE diplomats like Amytus Amiclan or whatever his name is admit to AFK mining while they gank. Roll
Black Pedro
Mine.
#24 - 2014-12-07 12:34:57 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
If you are going to play EVE, you might as well actually play it. Veers is right about that. You should engage with other players through incursions or through PVP.

Mining is an AFK activity or at least partially. You do it with your house chores, or while arguing on the forums, or watching a movie.

This is why CODE isn't taken seriously past the risk that they pose. They are recommending players actually bore themselves into quitting by staying at the keyboard, hitting d-scan and other equally ridiculous suggestions. If CODE cared about helping players they'd tell them to mine AFK and do something else when they want to stay ATK. While they do the latter... they fall flat with the former, made worse by ridiculing people who choose to sensibly do it themselves. All while CODE diplomats like Amytus Amiclan or whatever his name is admit to AFK mining while they gank. Roll

This is the game. You are not playing the game if you are cleaning your toilet or cooking your dinner while you mine. Even if you think this is valid game play, you at least have to admit your assets should be at risk while your computer prints ISK for you while you do something else. Otherwise, what is the point of playing?

I don't recommend players stay at the keyboard to mine - that time would be better spent on some of the more engaging game play Eve offers. But I must insist that if you are going to do something to make ISK in this game, you have to be at least at some risk. I don't even have a problem with miners that choose to "ISK-tank* like Veers suggested who take the risk of getting ganked while vacuuming their floors in the other room, in exchange for the reward of the ore sitting in their hold when they return to the keyboard - that is a rational decision especially after all of the ganking nerfs in recent years.

I do have a problem with those players that take this risk and lose their ship, and then come to the forums whining that the game is unfair or broken in some way. There are ways to protect your ship. If you choose not to use them because you rather be doing something else out of game, then you need to accept the consequence of that choice.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
ForTheEmpire2014
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-12-07 17:29:59 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

This is the game. You are not playing the game if you are cleaning your toilet or cooking your dinner while you mine. Even if you think this is valid game play, you at least have to admit your assets should be at risk while your computer prints ISK for you while you do something else. Otherwise, what is the point of playing?

I don't recommend players stay at the keyboard to mine - that time would be better spent on some of the more engaging game play Eve offers. But I must insist that if you are going to do something to make ISK in this game, you have to be at least at some risk. I don't even have a problem with miners that choose to "ISK-tank* like Veers suggested who take the risk of getting ganked while vacuuming their floors in the other room, in exchange for the reward of the ore sitting in their hold when they return to the keyboard - that is a rational decision especially after all of the ganking nerfs in recent years.

I do have a problem with those players that take this risk and lose their ship, and then come to the forums whining that the game is unfair or broken in some way. There are ways to protect your ship. If you choose not to use them because you rather be doing something else out of game, then you need to accept the consequence of that choice.


At least mine in a group, or engage with others in chat or comms. Social interaction is the hallmark of EvE and can turn even the most boring activity into a fun way to pass the time. There are lots of boring things, if isolated, in the game.

A group also provides better security and situational awareness.

As for the OP, engage your gankers in local or chat. Trashtalk them up, make a joke, gf or whatever. Make things interesting!
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-12-07 21:22:05 UTC
The issue you seem to be having is with alts, that's tough man, since EVE is basically built for alts.

CCP could not do **** about even if they wanted to (hint: they don't want to, every alt account is extra business for them). How would they prove that my accounts aren't those of my family, roommate, neighbor I share my connection with etc etc.
Kalishka Ashkulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-12-08 01:28:05 UTC
ujanga Cobon-Han wrote:
NOTE; i am not against PVP in any form and I am no carebare

Gankers vs miners characters gameplay,

I have been roaming around in high sec, and I have seen after i returned back to EVE miner ganking at it's finest, which I am not against . What I do hate and have seen, is almost each solar system in high sec has his miner ganker(group) or in rare cases MB-ers now which in most cases is an alt of player or a group of players who have on there main between +2.0 and 5.0 sec status but log in on a alt who has -10 sec just to gank and salvage and loot the wreck with a +0.1 sec status alt, and all those alts are in most cases in NPC corps.
People in EVE say we gank miners because they think they are safe so we make them have to be alert at all times which I agree, and they have to spam there d-scan each second and they have to run when a catalyst enters the system every time.
Why don't gankers have to be alert all the time because they have -10 sec status and after a gank they just log back into there + 0 sec status alt do PVE or station trade whatever, without ever have the feeling of continuously needing to be alert in the game.
I don't ask CCP to do something against it, i just ask the players if you want to be a bad guy with -10 sec status and gank do it with your main and not hide behind a high sec status character miners play fair they don't hide you know where to find them, miners cant find you guy's because you log out after a gank and play PVE with a high sec character.

For real miners not for those cheesy ones it takes a year to skill train and optimize a miner tank and +200 million but yet some even full optimized get ganked within a couple of seconds by dessy -10 alts at the cost of 21million isk and low skill training the profit in that gank is aprox 100 million. Why do those gankers hide in a high sec stat character if you can live as pirate and also be rich. Is it mayby because they don't like to be continuously have to be alert and watch local and use D-scan and having the possibility of being ganked at any times i don't know. I am against it, I just wish those players would not log out and play PVE in high sec or whatever but be alert at all times since you have chosen to be bad guy, after ganks, just stay logged in and have the same risk as miners do to be ganked.

I love playing EVE but since i returned i like it less because what i see and have witnessed on my roam and scouting stations and seeing ganks happen and where those people dock and see them log out and then suddenly see the same amount of people logging in on a plus sec status character.
Or see a guy scout a Astroid belt with a Dramiel +5.0 sec status. HG sees a Mackinaw lame tanked 10.3k max all for yield. The scout docks, there was only 1 station in the system and suddenly in the station 2 -10 sec status and 1 +0.2 sec stat characters log in and all leave the station warp to the miner and bang 1 loot and salvage the miner his left overs and two -10 ganked by CONCORDE they pod to station and log out. To bad this is what isk makes people do all about the greed.

I don't mind mine rganks or transport ganks or mission ganks, it's a part of EVE. I only hate they do it with alts and hide when it's over in the system station that easy without ever have to worry for payback by players who don't hide because there main is high sec status.

This is an opinion about the game play, a yell out to people to do PVP like it supposed to be instead for hiding behind a high sec status in the game and this is about 0.5 sec and higher. And sorry for my bad grammar


PS, ISD or GM i dont know where this should be posted so i posted it in gameplay since it is about gameplay and my 1st post ever and it's not posted or written to upset people or accuse people this is just what I have witnessed and why I feel sad in EVE.


Edited for readability. ISD Ezwal.


Complains about cowardly alts...

...posts on a cowardly alt

Why, thank you, Thing!
Syssitia Nikostratos
Apobangpo Worldwide
#28 - 2014-12-09 00:36:26 UTC
Most of the miners being ganked are AFK mining alts, so why shouldn't gankers use their alts to gank them? Alts vs alts seems fair to me.

Manners maketh man.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#29 - 2014-12-09 00:59:50 UTC
Read the Op twice. After taking the maximum daily amount of Ibuprofen in a single dose for the massive headache I got from trying to wrap my brain around what it was that my eyes were trying to read, I came up with a few thoughts:

Im a little hungry. Im staying late at work and forgot to bring some food. Man cannot survive on beef jerky and Iced Tea alone.

My second sentence was a run-on sentence.

My second point wasn't really a thought I had while reading the OP.

I need to have Maintenance replace the fluorescent bulb in my new office here. Its flickering madly and really irritating me.

The last point I made might actually be the real cause of my headache, but.. probably not.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#30 - 2014-12-09 15:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Revis Owen
ujanga Cobon-Han wrote:
. . . I feel sad in EVE.


We're all sad in EvE about something. You're not a special snowflake.

Oh, and rule of thumb:
Disclaimers that a person is "not X" means that the person really is "X" but they think stating the disclaimer is some kind of Jedi mind trick that will work.

It doesn't work, friend.

So, to address your carebearish opinion:
Firstly, what makes you certain the neg sec status character is not the player's main, and his other characters are his alts?
Secondly, game mechanics drive how a character is played. Neg sec status, especially the lower it goes, causes a type of play tailored to surviving the particular challenges the game mechanics itself imposes on the character. Simple as that.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-12-09 20:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tengu Grib
When I'm not ganking with Tengu, he's in a corp that you can easily come and war dec. I'm not hard to find, I don't hide behind alts (my alts hide behind me). If you want to shoot me, come and shoot me, I'm right here.

Beyond that, in the name of all that is Holy, learn to edit before you hit submit. Without ISD Ezwal's changes that post was illegible, after the changes, it's barely legible but much better.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#32 - 2014-12-11 13:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurico Elemenohpe
Based off what I read, you think gankers feel safe while using their alts because they have high sec status. But if high sec status is safety, why would miners die? They use it for an extra level of security, not total security.
Also, what?
Here's a Skiff Fit:
[Skiff, Anti-Hybrid Skiff]
Ice Harvester Upgrade II
Ice Harvester Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

Ice Harvester II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

And here's a skill plan:
http://pastebin.com/6niWQhHn

If you've completed that skill plan and are using that fit, you have 141,408 EHP against 50/50 Kinetic/Thermal.
It takes less than half a year to complete. And if you don't train Shield Management or Exhumers(beyond 1), it gets 103,219 for 81d.
Yeah, no. Not a year. It costs about 240m. If you t1 the rigs, it's only 190m, although the tank drops to 132,059/96,987
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-12-11 23:51:20 UTC
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:
Based off what I read, you think gankers feel safe while using their alts because they have high sec status. But if high sec status is safety, why would miners die? They use it for an extra level of security, not total security.
Also, what?
Here's a Skiff Fit:
[Skiff, Anti-Hybrid Skiff]
Ice Harvester Upgrade II
Ice Harvester Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

Ice Harvester II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

And here's a skill plan:
http://pastebin.com/6niWQhHn

If you've completed that skill plan and are using that fit, you have 141,408 EHP against 50/50 Kinetic/Thermal.
It takes less than half a year to complete. And if you don't train Shield Management or Exhumers(beyond 1), it gets 103,219 for 81d.
Yeah, no. Not a year. It costs about 240m. If you t1 the rigs, it's only 190m, although the tank drops to 132,059/96,987
Add fleet bonus at lvl5 to that, you're over 160K EHP against any sort of antimatter, that''s without any shield links fitted, which will prolly push it over 170K. Ganking's soooo easy :') Roll
Paranoid Loyd
#34 - 2014-12-12 00:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Anti-matter is not 50/50 it is: 28.5T/71.5K=+7K EHP (148K) before heat.
With heat and proper accounting for anti-matter, it is 197K EHP (193K EHP vs Void) before boosts.

https://o.smium.org/new/1461153268578123776

Jurico Elemenohpe, add Thermodynamics to your plan. 49KEHP is no small thing.

Disclaimer: you actually have to be paying attention to utilize the heat. Blink

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#35 - 2014-12-12 03:07:49 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Anti-matter is not 50/50 it is: 28.5T/71.5K=+7K EHP (148K) before heat.
With heat and proper accounting for anti-matter, it is 197K EHP (193K EHP vs Void) before boosts.

https://o.smium.org/new/1461153268578123776

Jurico Elemenohpe, add Thermodynamics to your plan. 49KEHP is no small thing.

Disclaimer: you actually have to be paying attention to utilize the heat. Blink

Yeah, that's why I don't have it, you need to be at the computer to overheat (without burning out your stuff)
I was calculating the original EHP against Void, not antimatter. Catalysts get bonuses to tracking, so I thought gankers used void.
Paranoid Loyd
#36 - 2014-12-12 04:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
You are probably right, if you put in the effort to kill a skiff, you probably would use void. My mistake.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#37 - 2014-12-12 04:45:53 UTC
ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:


At least mine in a group, or engage with others in chat or comms. Social interaction is the hallmark of EvE and can turn even the most boring activity into a fun way to pass the time. There are lots of boring things, if isolated, in the game.

A group also provides better security and situational awareness.

As for the OP, engage your gankers in local or chat. Trashtalk them up, make a joke, gf or whatever. Make things interesting!


This.
Virtually ALL content in the game that does not involve interacting with other players is bland and lackluster. This is not accidental, either. When you turn mining into a social and cooperative venture you get the opportunity to make your own fun, and the 'I do it to relax' statement starts to actually carry some weight. Sharing the burden of maintaining the group's safety makes it an easier one to bear. Having different roles for pilots to play in your mining op shakes things up a bit and gives everyone involved something important to do. Using fleet chat or voice comms to share intel, dirty jokes, stories and advice helps keep folks interested and alive as well.
Make your own fun.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#38 - 2014-12-12 12:16:40 UTC
I primarily gank on my 126 million SP 2008 alt. When I'm being a scaredy cat I use my 2012 main. What?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#39 - 2014-12-12 12:17:18 UTC
Goddamn stupid forum doublepost doublethink mindcrime.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#40 - 2014-12-12 15:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
Steppa Musana wrote:
If you are going to play EVE, you might as well actually play it. Veers is right about that. You should engage with other players through incursions or through PVP.

Mining is an AFK activity or at least partially. You do it with your house chores, or while arguing on the forums, or watching a movie.

This is why CODE isn't taken seriously past the risk that they pose. They are recommending players actually bore themselves into quitting by staying at the keyboard, hitting d-scan and other equally ridiculous suggestions. If CODE cared about helping players they'd tell them to mine AFK and do something else when they want to stay ATK. While they do the latter... they fall flat with the former, made worse by ridiculing people who choose to sensibly do it themselves. All while CODE diplomats like Amytus Amiclan or whatever his name is admit to AFK mining while they gank. Roll


My prefered solution would be for enough people to give up mining that CCP actually fixed the mechanic.

Sadly I doubt they will do it. More likely they will just nerf ganking or buff yield(which takes much less effort on their part). I mean, they already gave the skiff absurd tank AND the same yield as a Mackinaw.
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