Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes, I use it to my advantage all the time. It is more or less meaningless if you have friends. Why do you think I keep my kill rights instead of shedding them?

Do you know that blaster fit gank ships have about a 5KM max range while most likely in the 2-3km range?
Do you know a rail fit Brutix will blap destroyers in a few volleys all while being more than far enough away to mitigate any damge a gank fit cat could do?

Again, all the tools are available to you, the system is balanced.

Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I am a troll.

You can make up all the excuses you want.

The tools are available and the system is balanced.

Just because it's not easy, does not mean it is not balanced.

I did check your killboard. Once a month for the last couple months you spend an hour or so in Uedama with a Falcon whoring on Concord kills. You think this makes you an elite PvPer? I may suck at PvP, but at least I have the balls to admit it, rather than rely on NPCs to do my killing for me.

Show me one kill you have versus a known ganker where Concord wasn't involved. Hell, show me one kill versus a known ganker where you did even one point of damage.

You have no clue at all what you speak of. It's nigh time you admit this, and stop these pathetic delusions you have that you matter in the least to anyone in this game. Read my signature.

Hey someone said they have issues trying to find escorts...i offered.
If you personally have trust (or lack of friends) issues, thats YOUR problem. Not a mechanical problem.



So you admit the 'balance issue' is with ppls idiocy and their tendency to stuff more than they can tank in their hauler?

Because if gankers werent able to make money from ganking (which is ENTIRELY dependent on player complacency and stupidity) it wouldn't be 'broken'. right?



That some logic there. Everyone who has ever killed anything in any game is a MURDERER

Some players do it all the time but that doesn't make it a "profession", at least from the game design point of view. No resources or ISK is made in a gank, only destroyed and sometimes transferred around. So no, it isn't a profession that can be balanced in a traditional way as it is completely player-driven.


As I have explained many times in this thread it is not broken at all. The ability to take stuff from a player is built-in to the game by design from the beginning and is available to every player. There is a cost to do so, so the game is to decide whether you should sacrifice your ship for the chance at your opponents stuff. It is also not an easy way to make ISK for the most part - and it is totally dependent on the decisions of others. You can make yourself near impervious to a gank therefore how can you claim it is broken?


All this does is make piloting a shuttle safer. It doesn't "balance" the risk or the profit of ganking that shuttle to the ganker.

New Eden is suppose to have risk as CCP Falcon said:


You can make shuttles safer but the greedy, clueless, and foolish will still decide it is a good idea to put something expensive in them and it will be lost - maybe more so as they are now perceived as safer. This gameplay is by design and engaging in it does not make a player a psychopath. Are you a psychopath for taking your opponent's pawn in chess? Or bluffing your opponent into folding thier better hand in poker? No, these are part of the game just like the ability to engage in highsec criminality is in Eve.

If you don't like this aspect of the game, there are plenty of other MMOs or single player space games that don't allow other players to affect each other to this degree. But Eve is a sandbox and a place where you can "be the villain", and where highsec criminality is built in by design.

I want a force projecting repulse mod. I would only use it to throw miners I'm about to gank off their align though so I think your reason for the season is lacking.

/back on topic

Let me try one more time. Missioning and mining are traditional professions because they create ISK, modules and ore that are released into the greater Eve economy.

Ganking, (and other activities like hauling, scamming and trading) are not "professions" in that sense as they just move resources around New Eden and between players. They do not create wealth and are completely player driven (with the exception of distribution missions in these examples). Sure players may engage in these activities as their primary activity in Eve, but they are completely player-driven and therefore can not really be "balanced" in terms of ISK/h or risk vs. reward - the value and risk of these activities is completely dependent on the actions of other players.

Now as for ganking, it is balanced. It is balanced around the EHP of the ship - each ship has an amount it can carry where it will be unprofitable to gank, that is the cost of the gank ships will cost more than the expected drop after destruction of the target. This exact value is a function of the EHP, the cost of ganking equipment, the response time of CONCORD, and a few other factors, but the amount each ship can haul safely is generally known. If you overload your ship, you are taking a risk someone will notice and destroy it for profit. If you stay below that limit, you are much, much safer (although you still could be destroyed by someone for reasons other than direct profit).

Now if it was impossible to protect yourself from a ganker, you might have a case that something is broken. But this is not the case - many ships and strategies exist specifically to protect you and so you can move your stuff safely. For miners, the Skiff and the Procurer are incredibly tanked (and very resistant to bumping), so much so that there is no way to gank one for profit unless they are completely fit with expensive faction mods. For haulers, there are DSTs and Jump Freighters which are essentially immune to any reasonable ganking operation, and there are other strategies for moving your stuff safely as has been mentioned in this thread (like escorts). The only reason that profitable ganking is ever possible is because another player made a choice to take a risk and overload or overfit their ship. Many times this risk pays off and the player benefits from increased yield, the saving of time, or increased hauling profit - other times the player is noticed by a ganker and is relieved of their ship and cargo. This is not broken - that is the design of the game.

It is impossible to balance this any other way. Are you arguing that somehow a shuttle with 100B ISK worth of plex should require 100B ISK worth of gank ships to explode? No, a shuttle is a shuttle and if a player has such poor judgement to load 100B ISK worth of stuff in it (by the way, this number is outrageous - the ISK/h of an efficient ganker is much closer to the the average income for a L4 mission runner or less in most situations, otherwise you would see much more of it) then that player deserves to loose it. They should loose it exactly the same as if they decided to give that 100B ISK to an ISK doubler in Jita, or buying 100B of some worthless module on the market.

Just a few things to comment on.


Not to argue the point you are trying to make but I am wondering how do you know someone is a ganker until you actually witness them ganking someone? And once they are involved in a gank it would seem to me that it would be hard to do even a significant level of damage compared to Concord much less kill them before Concord can do the deed?


I hate gankers and I believe the game would be better off without them but accusing them of psychopathic behavior is over the top even for me. Because a player chooses this legitimate game play style has nothing to do with who or what they are as a person and no I do not equate peoples actions in a game to what they are like in real life.

Likely true for the systems where there is a CODE agent. How about all the others? As I say just curious here.

And you missed the question, how do you know who is a ganker and who is not in the systems where CODE does NOT maintain a presence?