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Dev blog: A new Era of Clones

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dark heartt
#261 - 2014-12-04 23:38:43 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
Granted, some will take my following statement and simply say "that was your choice!"

On the other hand:

I have been playing for 10 years, and my subscription has been active for 9.5 of those. I love this game, enough to call it a hobby and to base life choices on it! I have a record of almost every single pod death I've suffered, (or at least those since the game started tracking it). I'm able to play maybe 5 hours a week, and when i do I participate with the group im with. If its mining or anoms or PvP, I join right in. Its taken me thise 10 years to accrue the 2B in assets and 500M in liquid ISK on this character. When (not if) i get podded it hurts, as each of thise pods cost 30M+ ISK each.

So, my real question: can we get a refund of the ISK invested in a soon-to-be useless mechanic? Playing the game would take me, personally, 8 weeks or so to make back that ISK. Im willing and able to do it, but I'd much rather be making content for other players, rather than ratting.

Thanks for the consideration


No.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
erittainvarma
Fistful of Finns
#262 - 2014-12-05 03:10:47 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Not at all pleased with the Clone changes over all, I joined this game simply because after study it was the best around, difficult to progress, costly when you got it wrong and it required time and effort, plus not a little money over a long period of time to progress.

What I have seen in the past four years however has brought forwards the belief that CCP is staffed by people who believe not in the original concept of EVE but in the idea that it should be a game of instant gratification, started and finished in an afternoons thumb twitching which to be honest leaves a lot of players feeling they have wasted many years investment in both the game and CCP.

The game has lost balance, skewed as it's focus currently is towards Pvp, we have seen changes over the years to Jump bridges, mining, industry and now simply moving around the game board, this constant tinkering each time has left one aspect or another of the game at a disadvantage to the point now were some players seldom venture outside there home systems and in some cases have not moved for years.

The recent travel nerf's have seen players leave Null Sec in a flood, or at the very least become very resistant to movement at all placing a real strain on Alliance and Corp recruitment as the idea of jumping 30 or 40 gates to a system, 114 for some of us the other night, simply because they cannot even consider using Jump Bridges now, has meant that many will not even bother to join fleets and put in hours travelling on the off chance of a fight, mainly because the travel time outstrips there available play time, result, stagnant game play.

What little game play content generation there was left in EVE has been stripped away simply because players don't have the time to invest in these extended travel requirement so as predicted it,s local only stuff, and even then there is marked resistance to the travel involved, I,m all for change if it improves things, but in this case it has done the opposite and as a result players are finding it harder to justify investing the time and money in EVE required just to get to the fight CCP's advertising hype promised them...Please consider ALL aspects of a change before making it.

Each of these so called 'Improvements', have in fact not improved the game for all, but just for a minority faction and now we see CCP take away one of the most minor hindrances to even that area, what's next, new clones complete with implants you can never loose, wonder were we have seen that sort of thing before.

So, the game is wrong, not your choice? Why are you in alliance that sits behind vast blue sea?

You can fix your EVE yourself, leave CFC (and other big blocks) and go to smaller alliance that actually does some stuff alone.

My PVP starts under 10 jumps, usually much closer. Past jump changes era have been pretty much best time in EVE I have had in "bigger" fleets, as we can select to engage only 1-2 CFC entities per time. Or if they all come, just skip that fight and have 300 dudes waste hours for nothing.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#263 - 2014-12-05 12:39:11 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare.


I don't think the loss of standings is much of a problem. The problem is that in some cases restoring those standings is virtually impossible and in many cases maybe a bit too much of a chore.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#264 - 2014-12-05 21:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Beledia Ilphukiir wrote:
Algathas wrote:


It isnt about making them lose SP. It is about having *some* penalty for losing the pod to make someone make a strategic decision to not lose them. Most pods have no implants, so at least you inflict some isk damage on your opponent. If they lose isk per pod, most people will not lose them over and over again.

For example I have seen where someone came through the gate over and over again, trying to get to their ships in a POS. The pods never had implants so only had the loss of the clone. Each time we podded them until they got tired of losing their pod and logged on a titan to bridge around the gate LOL. Under the new scenario since they have nothing to lose, the same person might just continually keep coming over and over until we get too tired to kill their worthless pod. So as you can see, a penalty for pod death can cause content by causing someone to think of a strategy to avoid it.

Did they tell you they were getting too heavy ISK losses, so they had to titan around you or are you just assuming things? Maybe it was done because they didn't have an infinite amount of time to play a game and wanted to get to their destination. A very good reason to do it and maybe more likely scenario considering the people in question could afford a titan. As I said though, the consequences on player behavior are certainly debatable and we'll see how things change.

Personally your theoretical scenario wouldn't be a problem for me. It takes a lot more time and effort for them to come back, than it takes someone to put an end to their beer can of a spaceship and sent them back to the clone bay. Not to mention the game is already filled with ways to get through camps, that are much faster and cheaper then losing a large amount of pods. After this change they won't be cheaper, but they're still faster and much more likely to get you to your destination, so I don't see much of an issue.


Getting around this mechanic of spamming clown clones everywhere is likely to cause CCP to get timer on the activation of new clone after death like recent jump fatigue prohibiting jumping. Lol

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Noslen Nosilla
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
United Interests
#265 - 2014-12-06 01:49:09 UTC
Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK? BTW it's 5600 ISK, but wow talk about inflation, I often move about and changing my "Home System" was a common thing for me to do...while 100,000 ISK isn't much it's still a unjustified cost increase...does CCP not want us to move around in the game?

Be polite.

Be professional.

But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
dark heartt
#266 - 2014-12-06 02:20:27 UTC
Noslen Nosilla wrote:
Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK? BTW it's 5600 ISK, but wow talk about inflation, I often move about and changing my "Home System" was a common thing for me to do...while 100,000 ISK isn't much it's still a unjustified cost increase...does CCP not want us to move around in the game?


It'll still be cheaper for you in the long run than the cost of updating clones constantly. 100,000 isk is a trivial amount, and you need isk sinks need to exist.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
servalaan
#267 - 2014-12-06 11:23:29 UTC
UFS Fenix wrote:
What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up.

Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed.

What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless...

Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun.


Amen.

If pinocchio told you his nose was about to grow, what would happen?
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#268 - 2014-12-06 18:21:17 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

But people don't even undock because of medical clone costs?


It's amazing how many people can't see that this is a bad thing for the game overall.

Nah man, people who didn't undock 'cause of clone costs will find another excuse to stay docked. Losing precious +5s, ogb everywhere, warp travel time, can't fly a T3, loss of skill points for losing T3s or they just can't remove some expensive implant that they plugged in 5 seconds ago Lol ... etc. possibilities for excuses are endless.

The only thing this change will do is remove an isk sink, nothing more.
hagris
Arcana Coelestia
#269 - 2014-12-07 15:40:05 UTC
This change alone was enough to get me to resub
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#270 - 2014-12-08 03:04:34 UTC
erittainvarma wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Not at all pleased with the Clone changes over all, I joined this game simply because after study it was the best around, difficult to progress, costly when you got it wrong and it required time and effort, plus not a little money over a long period of time to progress.

What I have seen in the past four years however has brought forwards the belief that CCP is staffed by people who believe not in the original concept of EVE but in the idea that it should be a game of instant gratification, started and finished in an afternoons thumb twitching which to be honest leaves a lot of players feeling they have wasted many years investment in both the game and CCP.

The game has lost balance, skewed as it's focus currently is towards Pvp, we have seen changes over the years to Jump bridges, mining, industry and now simply moving around the game board, this constant tinkering each time has left one aspect or another of the game at a disadvantage to the point now were some players seldom venture outside there home systems and in some cases have not moved for years.

The recent travel nerf's have seen players leave Null Sec in a flood, or at the very least become very resistant to movement at all placing a real strain on Alliance and Corp recruitment as the idea of jumping 30 or 40 gates to a system, 114 for some of us the other night, simply because they cannot even consider using Jump Bridges now, has meant that many will not even bother to join fleets and put in hours travelling on the off chance of a fight, mainly because the travel time outstrips there available play time, result, stagnant game play.

What little game play content generation there was left in EVE has been stripped away simply because players don't have the time to invest in these extended travel requirement so as predicted it,s local only stuff, and even then there is marked resistance to the travel involved, I,m all for change if it improves things, but in this case it has done the opposite and as a result players are finding it harder to justify investing the time and money in EVE required just to get to the fight CCP's advertising hype promised them...Please consider ALL aspects of a change before making it.

Each of these so called 'Improvements', have in fact not improved the game for all, but just for a minority faction and now we see CCP take away one of the most minor hindrances to even that area, what's next, new clones complete with implants you can never loose, wonder were we have seen that sort of thing before.

So, the game is wrong, not your choice? Why are you in alliance that sits behind vast blue sea?

You can fix your EVE yourself, leave CFC (and other big blocks) and go to smaller alliance that actually does some stuff alone.

My PVP starts under 10 jumps, usually much closer. Past jump changes era have been pretty much best time in EVE I have had in "bigger" fleets, as we can select to engage only 1-2 CFC entities per time. Or if they all come, just skip that fight and have 300 dudes waste hours for nothing.


Let's agree that you misunderstood the direction of my post but that said the facts are self evident for some Alliances, travel time exceeding available game time for a number of players is now becoming a real problem for Alliances.

Why I am in an Alliance surrounded by a sea of blue is simply down to history and the fact that my members as a group have and see no reason to move. If that changes I will take them were they wish to go.

As for your own circumstances, that you are positioned just 10 or so jumps out from your engagement systems is fortuoutous for your Alliance, you should hope that remains the case rather than gloat about it. 😉
Severnij Veter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2014-12-08 10:43:33 UTC
I play EvE, because it's challenging. I lost SP once and had understanding that everything is mortal in EvE. It gives unique feeling, extreme passion and adrenaline.
In my opinion the harder - the better. Game should be a challenge. Moreover, in ideal Eve there should be chance of permanent death. Now, it becomes just like Warcraft or any other arcade facegrind games.

"I would rather die a thousand deaths than surrender".

General Robert E. Lee.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#272 - 2014-12-08 13:53:17 UTC
Severnij Veter wrote:
I play EvE, because it's challenging. I lost SP once and had understanding that everything is mortal in EvE. It gives unique feeling, extreme passion and adrenaline.
In my opinion the harder - the better. Game should be a challenge. Moreover, in ideal Eve there should be chance of permanent death. Now, it becomes just like Warcraft or any other arcade facegrind games.




How? the clone's were more like wow's armor system that you needed to repair after death so that you continue to benefit from that armor. In eve it wasn't a challenge it was needless clicking,
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#273 - 2014-12-08 13:54:30 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:

But people don't even undock because of medical clone costs?


It's amazing how many people can't see that this is a bad thing for the game overall.

Nah man, people who didn't undock 'cause of clone costs will find another excuse to stay docked. Losing precious +5s, ogb everywhere, warp travel time, can't fly a T3, loss of skill points for losing T3s or they just can't remove some expensive implant that they plugged in 5 seconds ago Lol ... etc. possibilities for excuses are endless.

The only thing this change will do is remove an isk sink, nothing more.



also gets rid of needless and annoying clicking.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#274 - 2014-12-09 05:37:06 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Severnij Veter wrote:
I play EvE, because it's challenging. I lost SP once and had understanding that everything is mortal in EvE. It gives unique feeling, extreme passion and adrenaline.
In my opinion the harder - the better. Game should be a challenge. Moreover, in ideal Eve there should be chance of permanent death. Now, it becomes just like Warcraft or any other arcade facegrind games.




How? the clone's were more like wow's armor system that you needed to repair after death so that you continue to benefit from that armor. In eve it wasn't a challenge it was needless clicking,




this basically.

Maybe back in the days when I started in apocrypha where the isk faucets weren't as many this crap mattered. I remember having some tight budgets back then starting out. Its 2014....players new and old can scrape the isk easy for this. Even if its just a half assed attempt at PI. Or the other isk faucets put in game since I started.

This harshness of eve....not seeing either. My noobtard mistake of dying in a non-upgraded clone back then was a whopping 5 day retrain. Was not harsh to me. I said oh well, undocked again (after double checking clone to not repeat the mistake ofc) for pvp and accepted I would fly with a bit of a gimp to my stats a few days. Since we have the well people will just keep undocking and undocking. People do this now. Now they can do it in less clicks. A change I like, aggravation for aggravations sake did not work here.
Andy Koraka
State War Academy
Caldari State
#275 - 2014-12-10 02:36:35 UTC
My only gripe is that shooting the "station cloning services" is pointless now, it was a very powerful and interesting tactic to shut off someone's ability to reship.

IMO make is so that when the station service gets taken out clone contracts are punted off to your Corp's "home" NPC station. Lets be real, you wouldn't want to reanimate there when the cloning shop is all shot to pieces.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#276 - 2014-12-10 23:39:22 UTC
servalaan wrote:
UFS Fenix wrote:
What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up.

Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed.

What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless...

Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun.


Amen.


+1

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#277 - 2014-12-10 23:42:27 UTC
Well patch day has been and gone and we're one day closer to

p u s s i e s online...

Next I predict

Zero penalty for implants loss
Ship's replaced in the hanger plus fittings
Free to Play Eve with MT Top ups
Removal of all skills so that noobs can fly all ships and use all weapons without training making Eve pay to win.

Takeover by EA Games...

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#278 - 2014-12-13 05:40:53 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Well patch day has been and gone and we're one day closer to

p u s s i e s online...

Next I predict

Zero penalty for implants loss
Ship's replaced in the hanger plus fittings
Free to Play Eve with MT Top ups
Removal of all skills so that noobs can fly all ships and use all weapons without training making Eve pay to win.

Takeover by EA Games...

So when do you predict this by....
And can I have all your stuff when none of this becomes true.
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#279 - 2014-12-15 18:01:39 UTC
An awesome change, I love it. I just found out about it last night.

I've been playing since early 2010 and was always put off from PvP because it always felt like it took too much time to find a fight and make your way back in case you lose your ship. For that reason, I left for World of Tanks for a long time because it offered instant PvP.

I find that this change makes PvP far more feasible for me. I'm more likely to dive into it more often now. Rather than flying 20 jumps back in a pod, I'll either get podded or suicide to save on that time. Time better spent on buying a new ship/modules and getting into another fight. This is basically the goal that CCP is moving towards. I think it will work.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#280 - 2014-12-16 06:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Hey. I tweeted this, and I'm also leaving this here: I triple boxed on a welp roam with two scimis and a hawk, and lost everything (including some implants whoops)... but it felt different knowing I was only going to lose what undocked.

thanks.

and no, I don't file for SRP. it's not my style.

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