These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Physically Based Rendering and making EVE look "Real"

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2014-12-10 14:14:09 UTC
its a hit or miss. Most Gallente ships look like plastic toys. The amarr ships have their armor plates stand out.

my nightmare looks like a drab of greyness
Sylveria Relden
#102 - 2014-12-10 14:51:58 UTC
My opinion? Amarr ships really got the worst end of the stick with this first pass- mainly due to the lighting system and materials used for ships. Caldari and Minnie ships look fine- but the Gallente ships...the green looks horrid. (if it was more "olive drab" or something low-key it probably wouldn't look so bad, even with the shiny chrome)

Amarr ships- now they look like someone's "tricked out gold-plated Cadillac with low-profile rims". I suppose if you like that sort of thing it's OK, but I don't see a majority of people driving cars that look like that- most are pretty low-key. I think perhaps a more bronze or muted metallic color would lend a bit better?

Anyway, not sure what can be done other than creating a new material type so that it's not so reflective for some ships. It's a great attempt- trying is better than not trying at all.

*inserts 2 isk*

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#103 - 2014-12-10 15:05:46 UTC
As a frequent user of the Singularity test server, I have been impressed with PBR from the start. But it does require having a pretty decent GPU to make the most of it. I use an ATI Radeon HD7970 with Eve set to max graphics settings.

Last night after updating a corp mate told me to look at the Armageddon. POW! Beautiful! I never even knew that the 'Geddon's mid-section was actually bisected. If you look at it from a lateral view, it is now very clear. The level of detail is amazing.

So I jumped into my Oracle and undocked. BLAM! White paint with gold trim throwing reflections from the local ambient lighting. It was really really beautiful.

It stands to reason that the different racial ships use different surface treatments. So it doesn't bother me at all that the surface textures look different on different racial ships.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#104 - 2014-12-10 15:33:16 UTC
Sylveria Relden wrote:
Amarr ships- now they look like someone's "tricked out gold-plated Cadillac with low-profile rims". I suppose if you like that sort of thing it's OK, but I don't see a majority of people driving cars that look like that- most are pretty low-key. I think perhaps a more bronze or muted metallic color would lend a bit better?


Thats because the Amarr plate their ships in gold - its not called "the Golden Fleet" for nothing!

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#105 - 2014-12-10 15:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
LTC Vuvovich wrote:
When I look upward towards a night-time sky... all I see is black. I have never seen a ruddy brown star field, or crimson red, or a golden yellow. Please apply some 'real world' rendering in your next overhaul... and maybe place more 'emphasis' brightening up the 'objects' that are contained in space rather than the areas of space themselves.

This is purely due to light pollution coming from our own planet. If the human race wasn't so prone to light up their entire environment at night you would see thousands of colors in the sky. Thanks to modern technology all we get is this black skybox with white dots.

Edit: PBR looks really good, but my crappy graphics card simply can't handle it well. It had issues with high / medium quality shaders before, but before Rhea the ships looked fairly well even without them. Now they look like cheap plastic toys. I'm not a graphics junkie and an update to my GFX is due, but still... especially Gallente ships look terribly fake on low quality shaders! Big smile
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#106 - 2014-12-10 18:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lil' Brudder Too
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP Vertex wrote:
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
...
--
Okay, so i narrowed the biggest "ugliness" culprit down....its the "shader quality"

With everything else set on "high"...here is what happens with the model when changing "shader quality" from high-medium-low....something is off here....

High
Medium
Low

Maybe someone (i don't know, maybe the Imbedded QA????) should test their stuff before saying its 'done'. Good form CCP.

I suspect it is like this for numerous other ships as well. But since i'm paying you (CCP) to test these sort of things while you are developing them...and not the other way around...i have other things more important to do.



Hi Lil' Brudder Too,

We most certainly consider and go to great lengths to investigate the visual and performance impact of our graphic features on a wide range of hardware, specifically using our minimum & recommended specification machines as control points.

You have discovered yourself that the ships don't look as good on Medium shader quality, this is because we do not include the dirt map in that shader model. This reduces the instruction count by roughly 50%, this was done purposefully to ensure players with mid-range hardware that cant cope with high settings can have improved performance at the cost of reduced visual fidelity.

I can see your GPU should be more than capable of running the client with high shader quality, if there is a reason such as performance issues that is forcing you to run on medium shader quality then we'd love to see a bug report from you so we can investigate.

This just in:

CCP Vertex has to explain to a rude player that Low and Medium graphics settings don't look at good as high graphics settings.

Patience of a Saint...

If calling someone out because it looks like they did not do their job is considered rude...i can live with that.

Also, re-read the underlined parts...and look at the pics again...i think you missed those the first time around. I wasn't complaining that "low and medium graphics look worse than high"...of course they will...i was merely pointing out that the Low actually has more texture and color than the Medium, which seems bassackwards to me.

CCP: so pray tell why have the "medium" setting if it doesn't even include what is in the "low"? How does the Medium Shader help increase performance over what the "low" does? (as seems to be your reasoning) If it does nothing better, but looks worse...what is the logical point of it? The ships on medium simply don't look like they are done. It looks like someone forgot to click a button to turn on a layer or forgot to create the layer altogether. (or a spawn for some particular required item, but that would never happen)

As to why i don't normally run "everything high"....because i multibox, and i like my PC the way it is...and want to keep it this way for as many years as i can...i don't want to have to replace hardware every year because i needlessly run high graphics 100% of the time on everything. Yes, running everything as hard as you can and will wear stuff out faster...its a electro-mechanical device, it takes wear. (and uses more electricity when pushed)

I was just curious why the Medium had less detailed (almost none infact) paint than the Low. And since you guys have a bad habit of not responding (or acknowledging) to the non-positive feedback posted in the Dev-created feedback threads for stuff you put on SiSi, (i posted this very issue specifically stating the Mega in the SiSi feedback thread...btw's) i was just making sure you guys even knew about it. Face it, CCP as a whole does seem to have a less than stellar history of fully QA'ing their releases.

New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!

An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
Kahetha
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-12-10 19:41:41 UTC
oh look. they are changing the graphics again... for.. the fourth time?

i wonder when we will get new content in this game again and not just endless rehashing of existing
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2014-12-10 19:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP Vertex...

Patience of a Saint...


Don't get him angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#109 - 2014-12-10 20:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
If calling someone out because it looks like they did not do their job is considered rude...i can live with that.


It is, but let's move on.

Quote:
Also, re-read the underlined parts...and look at the pics again...i think you missed those the first time around. I wasn't complaining that "low and medium graphics look worse than high"...of course they will...i was merely pointing out that the Low actually has more texture and color than the Medium, which seems bassackwards to me.


If your question was "why is there more detail in Low than in Medium," you didn't state that in your first post.

High uses PBR with dirt maps.

Medium uses PBR without dirt maps, which is a significant optimization but still retains the lighting model.

Low chucks the lighting model out the window for something entirely different (maybe Lambert shading with illumination clamped above zero? I haven't looked at the code) and reintroduces the dirt maps because even with them the rendering is faster than Medium or High.

Low's different lighting model, because it does away entirely with any shininess or reflections, will have more saturated colors, and it'll have the details from the dirt map.

If you like one look better than another, I absolutely encourage you to pick the one you like.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#110 - 2014-12-10 20:57:35 UTC
Zheng'Yi Sao wrote:
CCP Vertex wrote:
Murashj wrote:
When will PBR be added to T3 cruisers, stations and other structures?


Soon™


Will this eliminate the "shadow problem," as I call it?

The day I got up close to a station, and saw the shadow of my ship reflected thereon, the "Hollywood moment" was ruined. The illusion of scale was shattered, and I have never gotten it back. It would help if maybe the shadows of the ships were somehow miniaturized when reflected on the skin of a station. Then a larger sense of scale might return.

You can't be serious.

You can see how big your ship is in relation to the stations without needing shadows for scale. If you arbitrarily reduced the size of the shadows then it would just look stupid.
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#111 - 2014-12-10 21:01:37 UTC
Kahetha wrote:
oh look. they are changing the graphics again... for.. the fourth time?

i wonder when we will get new content in this game again and not just endless rehashing of existing


Yes, definitely no new content in Rhea. Roll
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#112 - 2014-12-10 21:25:31 UTC
So i have yet to read the threwad but please confirm i get to keep chromed out Brutix... I renamed mine the T-1000....

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Manella Antollare
African Atomic.
#113 - 2014-12-10 21:32:15 UTC
Amarr ships are fab now. But what happened to my glorious Mach?

Confirmed scrublord.
Embsi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-12-10 22:32:11 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
So i have yet to read the threwad but please confirm i get to keep chromed out Brutix... I renamed mine the T-1000....


http://i.imgur.com/TOPZ4Bo.jpg
:D
Rastafarian God
#115 - 2014-12-10 22:44:11 UTC
I have no issue with it at all. All the ships look nice so far. I like how the color of the world effects the ships. The fins on minmitar ships acting as actual reflective mirrors, and the contrast between the flat white and shiny gold on Amaarr ships is amazing pretty.

Plus the Pilgrim isnt pink in Gallenti stations anymore :)

Although every time I read PBR I think of the beer instead.
Embsi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-12-10 23:04:42 UTC
Rastafarian God wrote:
I have no issue with it at all. All the ships look nice so far. I like how the color of the world effects the ships. The fins on minmitar ships acting as actual reflective mirrors, and the contrast between the flat white and shiny gold on Amaarr ships is amazing pretty.

Plus the Pilgrim isnt pink in Gallenti stations anymore :)

Although every time I read PBR I think of the beer instead.


Actually I find that lights don't affect the ships at all.
Not even the lights that are on the ships themselves, like the Police pursuit comet.

One would think realistic lighting would reflect off the ship. ;)
Red suns don't turn the ship any more red than it is... Much of this so called realistic lighting is anything but realistic.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#117 - 2014-12-10 23:26:33 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
AND THERE'S A TYPO!
There always are in Dev Blogs....Twisted

That said, as I can see it in full glory now Rhea has been deployed I can only say good job. Thanks for that, well done!

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#118 - 2014-12-10 23:37:33 UTC
Some of the minmatar ships look a little strange, but give it a week and I probably won't notice.

Strange effects with shadows in gas clouds earlier on. I saw the shadow of an asteroid on the gas cloud with a zone of no shadow in between.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#119 - 2014-12-10 23:50:29 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Strange effects with shadows in gas clouds earlier on. I saw the shadow of an asteroid on the gas cloud with a zone of no shadow in between.


If you see this type of thing in-game and you have a moment, please use the F12 menu's bug reporter to submit a bug with a screenshot. This will get the picture to the right people so we can have graphics QA look at it.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Kitt JT
True North.
#120 - 2014-12-11 05:46:24 UTC
Don't know if this was PBR, or the new UI, or a combination of the two, but my frame rate is somewhere from 1/2 to 1/3 of what it was before.