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The Battle Rorq Lament
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Jenshae Chiroptera
#21 - 2014-12-10 12:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I don't see why it needs a POS bubble as long as it can enter reinforced mode. Being able to protect a small fleet that can dock in its maintenance hangar is fine, but it shouldn't have an actual POS bubble or it'll immediately become the new meta and get used as a mobile POS for combat operations.


The bubble only lasts 10 minutes and is a one time thing. Just get them to trigger it and wait for the kill. O

Edit: It wouldn't be a very big bubble either. Fit a gang that is careful in it, not a whole fleet.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-12-10 15:39:35 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Let us pretend for a minute that we want to see Rorquals in battle.

The overwhelming problem I see with it, (and the Nid) is a lack of capacitor recharge. Flip on one capital remote shield repair and it falls flat. No way you are going to get near running three of them. Can get 1M eHP and 7000 repp tank and even keep it stable but then it can't turn on any high slots and it needs to neut to do that.
If there were two Rorq's trying to repair each other, both being hit, they would splat.

So, either they need more cap recharge to be over sized Scimitars or they need capacitor transfer bonuses to be over sized Basalisks.

How would you alter them to see them work in combat?


I don´t wanna see a industrial ship in a fight, that´s not it´s purpose. Use a dread or some other capitals for that.

-1
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-12-10 15:45:14 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
I don´t wanna see a industrial ship in a fight, that´s not it´s purpose. Use a dread or some other capitals for that.

-1

In EVE, combat is often inevitable. The post is about giving the Rorqual a fighting chance to defend itself, not to make it into some sort of epic battlebadger. Even with the proposed changes, the ship is still far worse in combat than any carrier, yet costs even more.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#24 - 2014-12-10 16:59:31 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Let us pretend for a minute that we want to see Rorquals in battle.

The overwhelming problem I see with it, (and the Nid) is a lack of capacitor recharge. Flip on one capital remote shield repair and it falls flat. No way you are going to get near running three of them. Can get 1M eHP and 7000 repp tank and even keep it stable but then it can't turn on any high slots and it needs to neut to do that.
If there were two Rorq's trying to repair each other, both being hit, they would splat.

So, either they need more cap recharge to be over sized Scimitars or they need capacitor transfer bonuses to be over sized Basalisks.

How would you alter them to see them work in combat?


I don´t wanna see a industrial ship in a fight, that´s not it´s purpose. Use a dread or some other capitals for that.

-1



CCP wants these to be used in belts

The OP's idea's are a step in that direction. If POS bubble or reinforcement mode maybe a locked asteroid to make it active and when it comes out it destroys the asteroid it was locked to
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#25 - 2014-12-10 17:04:47 UTC
Actually, all you have to *somehow* achieve is bringing a few of strangely fit Ospreys with them.
DaeHan Minhyok
Logical Outcomes
#26 - 2014-12-10 17:44:01 UTC
CCP more or less said they dont want battle rorqs and that if the battle rorq became a thing it would probably result in the rorq losing its fatigue boosts. So keep that in mind.

Also, the ORE ships in general are not meant to be in sustained combat so a high burst tank is suitable. If you were going to take one into battle I would recommend fitting siece warfare links since you would be on grid anyway and extra resists, and reduced shield booster ct and cap wouldn't hurt.

As for the drones, that comes from a time when gallente were the drone race, but since Rorq cant use fighters comparing their damage output to carriers isn't really fair.

As the platapi of eve don't expect much. Out of ORE ships in combat. (ORE are Gallente shield tanking ships that use lasers and look like they came from a minmatar shipyard. In much the same way the platapus is a hair covered mamal that lays eggs, has a duck's bill a beaver's tail and is venemous)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-12-10 19:51:19 UTC
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:
CCP more or less said they dont want battle rorqs and that if the battle rorq became a thing it would probably result in the rorq losing its fatigue boosts. So keep that in mind.

They also said they don't think it will become a thing. I don't think it'll become a thing even with this proposal.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#28 - 2014-12-10 20:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Honestly... the only thing the Rorqual needs are...

- for its Industrial Core to be modified into a Triage-like module; bonuses to local tank and remote repairs (with this change, it should lose its jump fatigue bonus).

- its HP and maybe its capacitor buffed to current combat carrier levels.

- for Cap Power Relays to lose a bit of their shield boosting penalty.


Currently the Rorqual is already quite formidable and can hold its own against small gangs (less than 10 cruisers) using RR and drones (which are stat-wise equivalent to a carrier's). I pointed this out in the previous page when I compared it to an Archon.

But if one were to throw a bunch of PvP-fit Procuers or Skiffs around a Rorqual then it would be an extra dangerous target for small gangs to attack.

How did you Veterans start?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2014-12-10 20:17:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera
#30 - 2014-12-10 20:44:57 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

In EVE, combat is often inevitable. The post is about giving the Rorqual a fighting chance to defend itself, not to make it into some sort of epic battlebadger. Even with the proposed changes, the ship is still far worse in combat than any carrier, yet costs even more.


Lady Rift wrote:

CCP wants these to be used in belts

The OP's idea's are a step in that direction. If POS bubble or reinforcement mode maybe a locked asteroid to make it active and when it comes out it destroys the asteroid it was locked to


Thanks, adding them to OP so we don't go around to many circles hopefully.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-12-10 22:06:20 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
But if one were to throw a bunch of PvP-fit Procuers or Skiffs around a Rorqual then it would be an extra dangerous target for small gangs to attack.

For small gangs maybe, but capital ships have this way of drawing larger gangs...

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2014-12-10 23:41:27 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
But if one were to throw a bunch of PvP-fit Procuers or Skiffs around a Rorqual then it would be an extra dangerous target for small gangs to attack.

For small gangs maybe, but capital ships have this way of drawing larger gangs...

In which case, the result would be the same if it was a combat carrier. The Rorqual should not be a "special snowflake" in this regard.

How did you Veterans start?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#33 - 2014-12-10 23:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
ShahFluffers wrote:
In which case, the result would be the same if it was a combat carrier. The Rorqual should not be a "special snowflake" in this regard.


The Rorqual is a yellow snow flake you have to hide in the freezer away from anyone visiting.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-12-11 01:24:06 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
In which case, the result would be the same if it was a combat carrier. The Rorqual should not be a "special snowflake" in this regard.

That's like saying that a call for a buff to the old (pre mining barge tiericide) Retriever in the form of more capacitor storage so it can activate both strip miners at the same time is going to turn it into a combat craft not only on-par with a battlecruiser, but even better, making it a special snowflake.

I don't know how better to outline just how far off the mark your comment is.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#35 - 2014-12-11 01:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Look back to the fits I posted in the previous page. Stat-wise, the Rorqual is essentially a carrier without access to a Triage Module.

It only needs to be buffed so it can stay on field like one.


If a large gang comes along and the Rorqual (with the buffs I think are necessary) doesn't have the sub-capital support it needs... then it will die like any normal carrier will (because any capital without sub-capital support is a dead capital).

fake edit: I'll edit the post on the last page to include a fit for a Chimera-class carrier for comparison

How did you Veterans start?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-12-11 02:38:50 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Look back to the fits I posted in the previous page. Stat-wise, the Rorqual is essentially a carrier without access to a Triage Module.

How can you compare it that way? Carriers either triage or spider tank. If a Rorqual can't triage AND it can't spider tank, then it only tanks as well as a carrier that isn't tanking properly.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#37 - 2014-12-11 03:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Which is why I say that the Industrial Core should give triage-like bonuses.

As for spider-tanking... the Rorqual would need 4 capital cap power transfers and 2 cap relays to pull it off.
For comparison...

- the Archon would need at least 3 capital cap power transfers and 2 cap relays
- the Chimera needs 3 capital cap power transfers and 3 cap relays.

Also bear in mind that most non-triage capital spider tanks require at least 3 carriers to perform well... with one of the three acting as the "battery."

How did you Veterans start?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#38 - 2014-12-11 03:41:44 UTC
Industrial Core giving mining bonuses and combat bonuses? I prefer how I set the OP with two different cores.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#39 - 2014-12-11 04:20:55 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Industrial Core giving mining bonuses and combat bonuses? I prefer how I set the OP with two different cores.

Which gives a choice certainly... until you realize that most miners are not going to trade efficiency for safety unless safety equates to efficiency (as the Procurer does in high-sec, but CODE kinda had to force that meta otherwise it would stayed at "Retrievers or GTFO")...

which means the the Rorqual will continue to stay at a POS as it does now (providing bonuses) and mining ships will continue to skitter away as soon as a non-blue enters a null-sec system...

because that is the most efficient way to conduct mining operations in null-sec.


Forgive my little rant... but part of them problem with the Rorqual has nothing to do with its stats. It is the culture it is a part of (see: "run away and do nothing until any perceived threat is gone").
Balancing a ship should not be solely based on perception. A ship should be balanced by what it is and should do.

What the Rorqual is, is a carrier. What it should do is the same as any other carrier does; logistic support to an organized sub-capital gang/fleet.

How did you Veterans start?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#40 - 2014-12-11 12:38:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
... but CODE ...

Forgive my little rant... but part of them problem with the Rorqual has nothing to do with its stats. It is the culture it is a part of (see: "run away and do nothing until any perceived threat is gone").


"but CODE " Nothing. It is a corp level achievement, which got moderate publicity and has since been nullified. They are a non-factor. Considering just how many there are in high-sec and what they destroy, they are less efficient than a random spectre roam through null sec.

As for a run and hide mentality? I thought that was the case for awhile also. Turns out that if you give them enough time and encouragement, suddenly you have procurers with disruptors sitting in belts and people re-shipping ready to trap invaders in a system.
Think about where Rorquals are mostly used and then the sorts of players that live there.

Turns out it is the tools that are forcing their actions. They need a few weapons.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
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