Intergalactic Summit

The treachery continues to this day. The apathetic accept of loss and defeat is unacceptable.

I will assume you are addressing my comment, Nauplius.

I assure you, I am well aware of the history of the Jovian Empire in terms of it's interactions with the rest of the cluster, and I am certain they maintained at least some amount of infrastructure in and around what we have considered to be the extent of their sovereign space.

However, if we consider some long-established facts:

- No fleet of remotely appropriate size for an Empire of their size, age and technological development has ever been observed in New Eden.
- Almost no one has been permitted access into Jovian Space proper, even during their more active period.
- They are the creators of the Capsule, and thus were originally likely able to manipulate it's perceptions in a number of ways (for example, station and Gate data, etc)

Along with some fairly new ones:

- The generation of wormholes as a means of very long-range transport is seemingly possible, and, indeed, not much more advanced than what we are currently capable of.
- There is fair evidence of connection between the Jovians and Sleepers.
- Judging by the recent astrological events, there may be Sleeper settlements a mere handful of stars away from the established Jovian regions, and perhaps whole areas of the star cluster we are unaware of, but they surely would have been.

We must, though it may indeed be a little conspiratorial, consider the notion that the area of space we have thought to be the Jovian heartland may have been a mere backwater to them, or perhaps something occupied and closed off not out of isolationism, but perhaps a simple desire to prevent us from crossing over to the other side - To the source of the current Bright Star, and, as it seems, what we are now calling Thera.

If someone didn't get caught in restricted area near a mass murder there wouldn't be any kind of fleet at all.

You get used to the Amarr Comedy Network after awhile. It's the most careful humour in the Cluster.

Quite frankly, we invaded them to fulfill the obligations of Reclaiming.

While there were reports of Jovian support of Matari insurgents prior to the Great Rebellion, those would hardly be the reason for our invasion. I have said before, and I will say again, we are not a passive nation that must invent flimsy justifications or claims of "simply defending ourselves" for war. We did not invade because the Jove may have been involved with the murder of a few priests or the destruction of the Impervious or anything else like that. They might have been factors encouraging it (among many others) but they were hardly the main reason for the attack.

The Amarr-Jove War started because it is our duty to Reclaim the universe under God. We sought to conquer the Jove Empire, not to avenge some comparatively minor slight. We failed in that, because we allowed our pride to blind us and traitors to lead us, and this is something we can feel only great shame for as we have failed both God and the Jovian people.

There is no shame in admitting to being the aggressor in war.

I just wanted to say that I find Samira's directness and honesty refreshing. I am totally behind the idea of a justified war and I hate having to pretend to be uncomfortable about the fact that we Carpe'd the Diem in getting that fleet to Home back in the day.

Of course this leaves you open to having to be either ambivalent or retaliatory regarding unfortunate outcomes of wars that aren't in your nation's interests.

God is all-powerful.

Man is not.

Our failure to do something is not an indication of God's will, it is an indication of our own failure in carrying it out.

No, He doesn't.

But just because you can do your child's homework, does that mean you should do it for them? Children have to be given the opportunity to develop on their own, with your support and guidance but not with you doing everything for them just because you can.

Andreus, I hear what you're saying, but I have to ask what you think this discussion will achieve? Samira is a believer, she has Faith in God and she isn't going to abandon that faith because you pick holes in a metaphor she used to describe the concept of Free Will in Humans as it applies to what she sees as God's Plan.

If this is just about being mean to someone because you don't like their religion, that's different, but let's not pretend you're really having a discussion here. Even if it's about trying to point out that someone's religion causes them to do very harmful and unpleasant things to people in what is nominally 'their own good' you still aren't going to shake Samira's belief in the Reclaiming, because it isn't rooted in something that can be disproven with facts.

Here's a question for one of the Faithful, though. Why do you believe the fleet commander's at Vak'Aktioth committed treason? Given that they found themselves in a tactical situation that presented them with the choice of withdrawing the fleet, leaving their objectives incomplete or losing the fleet, leaving their objectives incomplete, why do you believe the only sane strategic choice, that of at least preserving some lives and materiel, was treason?