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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2401 - 2014-12-09 17:31:47 UTC
Ersin Baba wrote:
So did I understand correctly:

Question : Someone is allowed to Boxing as individual use, but there should not be automatic functions. ???

- What if we see someone in the game using IS-Boxer with automation , How could we report him. More interestingly, which character should we supposed to report. -- > I have personally seen a guy boxing 49 accounts simultaneously to dig and clear up a ice belt as others were just looking for 1 or 2 circle to finish. It is utterly unfair for the others. Moreover, I saw this *** on EVE-Bazaar to sell these accounts as "mining Accounts" after 4-5 Months as perfect starting accounts with 5B What? (Of course, I do not tell you the name , all I can say is that he was one of this typical Rule-Bending-Russian-Guys)

Currently my ALT-Char was bumped in 0.0 sec to a multi-Boxing guy who shoot in same time and cleared up every member of my gank in single-handedly with max. 20M cheap ships. I am completely against this kind of action, but on the contrary I am not doing that in the game. My purpose is controlling different chars in same time in different grids. Am I still allowed to use that even though it is called Boxing? Should I have to drop it or what? I do not want surprising ban after Jan 1, 2015.

My personal Experience : I use IS-Boxer for doing jobs separately on 2 other accounts to follow and judge the situation instead automation ( Instead of ALT+TAB combination between windows). It is practical. My Q. is : Should I stop doing this too or am I allowed to using on? How would you plan to distinguish the guys like me and the guys like these 2 examples?????



Thank you for your time

E.



IF one click of your mouse effects more than one toon in game it is a ban.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2402 - 2014-12-09 17:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Lady Rift wrote:
It comes down to the definition of what it means to obtain items quicker. CCP seams to be concerning themselves with just the processes that actually involve making the client/s faster per real person. Also they banned this ability no matter what program or os gave that function.
For broadcasting, yes. There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.

Ersin Baba wrote:
Question : Someone is allowed to Boxing as individual use, but there should not be automatic functions. ???
Automation was never allowed. What they've banned now is broadcasting.

Ersin Baba wrote:
What if we see someone in the game using IS-Boxer with BROADCASTING, How could we report him. More interestingly, which character should we supposed to report
You should report him if you know he is broadcasting. Multiboxing is still allowed, so you will still see big fleets of pilots stripping the ice belts. You'll probably find yourself in trouble if you report everyone you see multiboxing.

Ersin Baba wrote:
I have personally seen a guy boxing 49 accounts simultaneously to dig and clear up a ice belt as others were just looking for 1 or 2 circle to finish. It is utterly unfair for the others. Moreover, I saw this *** on EVE-Bazaar to sell these accounts as "mining Accounts" after 4-5 Months as perfect starting accounts with 5B What? (Of course, I do not tell you the name , all I can say is that he was one of this typical Rule-Bending-Russian-Guys)
A high sec ice belt has around 2400 blocks of ice in it, so 49 characters would actually take about 48 cycles to clear a belt. Even unboosted, that should mean you can get at least 3 full procurers worth of ice before he's done.

Ersin Baba wrote:
Currently my ALT-Char was bumped in 0.0 sec to a multi-Boxing guy who shoot in same time and cleared up every member of my gank in single-handedly with max. 20M cheap ships. I am completely against this kind of action, but on the contrary I am not doing that in the game. My purpose is controlling different chars in same time in different grids. Am I still allowed to use that even though it is called Boxing? Should I have to drop it or what? I do not want surprising ban after Jan 1, 2015.

My personal Experience : I use IS-Boxer for doing jobs separately on 2 other accounts to follow and judge the situation instead automation ( Instead of ALT+TAB combination between windows). It is practical. My Q. is : Should I stop doing this too or am I allowed to using on? How would you plan to distinguish the guys like me and the guys like these 2 examples?????
If you are clicking or pushing a keyboard button once, and it's affecting more than one client, that is no longer allowed. If you are controlling them separately side by side, swapping between windows, that is fine. Either way, you will still be ganked by multibox gankers.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Eryn Velasquez
#2403 - 2014-12-09 19:38:20 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.


Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2404 - 2014-12-09 19:46:03 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.
Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.
It's not in the EULA. It's in this thread. Read the OP. It explicitly states what's not allowed, which is just broadcasting. Here is the infographic CCP Random sent out for people to see too. According to this, round robin and VideoFX are not at all banned, which is what ISBoxer users will be using. I've resubbed ISBoxer and already started using this to control a fleet with no issues in advance of the change. Takes a little longer to get undocked and set up, but other than that is about the same.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2405 - 2014-12-09 20:07:32 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.


Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.



Its not in the eula its against the eula just like cachescrapping is. CCP has always just enforced what it wants when it wants and they leave things vague so that they can change there mind or decide a different way without having to have us all accept the eula again, also makes it easier for CCP to uphold as almost everything can be argued to be against the eula.


CCP devs often post and then either do the opposite or another dev will post the opposite so take everything that isn't in the OP or dev blogs with a grain of salt
Eryn Velasquez
#2406 - 2014-12-09 20:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.
Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.
It's not in the EULA. It's in this thread. Read the OP. It explicitly states what's not allowed, which is just broadcasting. Here is the infographic CCP Random sent out for people to see too. According to this, round robin and VideoFX are not at all banned, which is what ISBoxer users will be using. I've resubbed ISBoxer and already started using this to control a fleet with no issues in advance of the change. Takes a little longer to get undocked and set up, but other than that is about the same.


So, it's not in the EULA? Nor in the TOS regarding the useage of 3rd party tools?

C'mon, you're kidding. Lol

If i read the TOS, i can see a real clear statement. Using 3rd party tools to gain an advantage over other players puts you at risk to get banned. Simple as that.

CCP is not in need to state, program x and y with function z1, z2 or z3 are allowed.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2407 - 2014-12-09 20:15:07 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.
Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.
It's not in the EULA. It's in this thread. Read the OP. It explicitly states what's not allowed, which is just broadcasting. Here is the infographic CCP Random sent out for people to see too. According to this, round robin and VideoFX are not at all banned, which is what ISBoxer users will be using. I've resubbed ISBoxer and already started using this to control a fleet with no issues in advance of the change. Takes a little longer to get undocked and set up, but other than that is about the same.
So, it's not in the EULA? Nor in the TOS regarding the useage of 3rd party tools?

C'mon, you're kidding. Lol

If i read the TOS, i can see a real clear statement. Using 3rd party tools to gain an advantage over other players puts you at risk to get banned. Simple as that.

CCP is not in need to state, program x and y with function z1, z2 or z3 are allowed.
Right, and yet this isn't banned. Just like how cache scraping isn't banned, and just like how TS and mumble overlays are against the EULA, and yet not banned. Seriously, are you new to EVE?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2408 - 2014-12-09 20:23:46 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.
Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.
It's not in the EULA. It's in this thread. Read the OP. It explicitly states what's not allowed, which is just broadcasting. Here is the infographic CCP Random sent out for people to see too. According to this, round robin and VideoFX are not at all banned, which is what ISBoxer users will be using. I've resubbed ISBoxer and already started using this to control a fleet with no issues in advance of the change. Takes a little longer to get undocked and set up, but other than that is about the same.
So, it's not in the EULA? Nor in the TOS regarding the useage of 3rd party tools?

C'mon, you're kidding. Lol

If i read the TOS, i can see a real clear statement. Using 3rd party tools to gain an advantage over other players puts you at risk to get banned. Simple as that.

CCP is not in need to state, program x and y with function z1, z2 or z3 are allowed.
Right, and yet this isn't banned. Just like how cache scraping isn't banned, and just like how TS and mumble overlays are against the EULA, and yet not banned. Seriously, are you new to EVE?



cache scraping isn't actually allowed but until they find a better way they tolerate it. They are all against the eula meaning that if ccp decided and had the tools to detect them they could ban people with no warring. You are going to have to accept that there are things that CCP just doesn't enforce for varies reasons (might be bad for the game or just straight up can't). They clarified there eula in respect to muiltcasting and said that they will be enforcing that portion of it.

In the end there are banable offences that CCP just ignores and others that they don't.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2409 - 2014-12-09 20:28:15 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
cache scraping isn't actually allowed but until they find a better way they tolerate it. They are all against the eula meaning that if ccp decided and had the tools to detect them they could ban people with no warring. You are going to have to accept that there are things that CCP just doesn't enforce for varies reasons (might be bad for the game or just straight up can't). They clarified there eula in respect to muiltcasting and said that they will be enforcing that portion of it.

In the end there are banable offences that CCP just ignores and others that they don't.
While in theory, yes, they could ban people without warning of a change in their interpretation of the EULA, they wouldn't because they run a business and it would make pretty bad press. Hell, do you realise they can ban you even if you do nothing wrong? The EULA isn't a legally binding document. They can literally ban your account because they suspect you like the colour purple if they want to. It doesn't mean they will. and at the moment, the other methods of controlling ISBoxer are note lined up for the banhammer, and so people will continue to use them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#2410 - 2014-12-09 20:38:25 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
cache scraping isn't actually allowed but until they find a better way they tolerate it. They are all against the eula meaning that if ccp decided and had the tools to detect them they could ban people with no warring. You are going to have to accept that there are things that CCP just doesn't enforce for varies reasons (might be bad for the game or just straight up can't). They clarified there eula in respect to muiltcasting and said that they will be enforcing that portion of it.

In the end there are banable offences that CCP just ignores and others that they don't.
While in theory, yes, they could ban people without warning of a change in their interpretation of the EULA, they wouldn't because they run a business and it would make pretty bad press. Hell, do you realise they can ban you even if you do nothing wrong? The EULA isn't a legally binding document. They can literally ban your account because they suspect you like the colour purple if they want to. It doesn't mean they will. and at the moment, the other methods of controlling ISBoxer are note lined up for the banhammer, and so people will continue to use them.



And if you read my post that's all I was saying. mutlicasting is being actively banned in the new year. You are the one who has to respond to every comment in here do you even know what you are arguing for or against anymore?
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#2411 - 2014-12-09 22:17:00 UTC


Good too see CCP making sure people are on a level playing field. Perhaps someday they'll build a feature like this into the game available to all so that no pilot gains unfair advantage.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2412 - 2014-12-09 22:32:54 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
And if you read my post that's all I was saying. mutlicasting is being actively banned in the new year. You are the one who has to respond to every comment in here do you even know what you are arguing for or against anymore?
I know exactly what I'm arguing, when people like Eryn jump in talking about how it's not allowed, then you jump in in support, then clearly you aren't just saying they can ban you for anything they want.

At the end of the day, it's simple. Broadcasting is banned, the rest of ISBoxer isn't. The end.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Eryn Velasquez
#2413 - 2014-12-09 22:33:22 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
.... There are other features of programs which allow you to interact with clients faster than "normal gamplay" which are still allowed.
Would be nice if you point to the section of the EULA, where you read this.
It's not in the EULA. It's in this thread. Read the OP. It explicitly states what's not allowed, which is just broadcasting. Here is the infographic CCP Random sent out for people to see too. According to this, round robin and VideoFX are not at all banned, which is what ISBoxer users will be using. I've resubbed ISBoxer and already started using this to control a fleet with no issues in advance of the change. Takes a little longer to get undocked and set up, but other than that is about the same.
So, it's not in the EULA? Nor in the TOS regarding the useage of 3rd party tools?

C'mon, you're kidding. Lol

If i read the TOS, i can see a real clear statement. Using 3rd party tools to gain an advantage over other players puts you at risk to get banned. Simple as that.

CCP is not in need to state, program x and y with function z1, z2 or z3 are allowed.
Right, and yet this isn't banned. Just like how cache scraping isn't banned, and just like how TS and mumble overlays are against the EULA, and yet not banned. Seriously, are you new to EVE?


No, i'm absolutely not new to eve. But you're repeated argument that the useage of VFX and round robin is "allowed" is wrong.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2414 - 2014-12-09 22:53:29 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
No, i'm absolutely not new to eve. But you're repeated argument that the useage of VFX and round robin is "allowed" is wrong.
Prove it. I've already posted up CCP Randoms graphic detailing in the simplest possible terms what is and isn't allowed. Follow it for VFX and round robin, and they both lead to being allowed. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it banned. Get over it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2415 - 2014-12-09 23:05:38 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
No, i'm absolutely not new to eve. But you're repeated argument that the useage of VFX and round robin is "allowed" is wrong.
Prove it. I've already posted up CCP Randoms graphic detailing in the simplest possible terms what is and isn't allowed. Follow it for VFX and round robin, and they both lead to being allowed. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it banned. Get over it.


121 pages of basically the same argument over and over.

CCP PLEASE clarify this.
The OP seems to have left a question mark as to what is and is not legal.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#2416 - 2014-12-09 23:22:31 UTC
It is very clear what is and what is not legal. You just don't like it.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Eryn Velasquez
#2417 - 2014-12-09 23:22:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
No, i'm absolutely not new to eve. But you're repeated argument that the useage of VFX and round robin is "allowed" is wrong.
Prove it. I've already posted up CCP Randoms graphic detailing in the simplest possible terms what is and isn't allowed. Follow it for VFX and round robin, and they both lead to being allowed. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it banned. Get over it.


I would, but the graphic only displays one thing: You will be banned if you use certain features, and you will not be banned if you don't.
And i clearly don't believe, that your repeatedly statements regarding "round robin" and the possibility to automatically switch to the next window after striking one key has been looked at by CCP before publishing this graphic.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#2418 - 2014-12-09 23:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Round Robin is still input broadcasting. If you want to test CCP go ahead and use it. Be sure to whine a lot when you are banned so we can all laugh at you for it.

It was made clear, it doesn't matter what method you use to achieve it, it is not allowed.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#2419 - 2014-12-09 23:31:27 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Round Robin is still input broadcasting. If you want to test CCP go ahead and use it. Be sure to whine a lot when you are banned so we can all laugh at you for it.

It was made clear, it doesn't matter what method you use to achieve it, it is not allowed.

How is it broadcasting? A single key is pressed and a single keypress is sent to a single client. No broadcast there.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2420 - 2014-12-10 07:52:08 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Round Robin is still input broadcasting. If you want to test CCP go ahead and use it. Be sure to whine a lot when you are banned so we can all laugh at you for it.

It was made clear, it doesn't matter what method you use to achieve it, it is not allowed.
No it's not. Just because you don't understand how it works, doesn't make it broadcasting.

Broadcasting: 1 keypress = 1 action on multiple clients
Round Robin: 1 keypress = 1 action on 1 client

That's the difference which stops it being affected by this change.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.