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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Choosing Ammo
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Cymek Agamemnon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-12-07 16:43:52 UTC
So I downloaded EFT and have been messing around with it but am struggling on knowing what ammo is worth loading at what times. EFT clearly shows the DPS but some ammo have range bonuses or tracking bonuses and I don't see how that is incorporated. Like EMP S and Phased Plasma have high DPS but -50% range means you have to be really close. The Titanium has better range but lower DPS. I started carrying around different ammo in my ship but other than the DPS value I'm not sure how to think about what I should actually be loading in any given fight.
Orlacc
#2 - 2014-12-07 17:23:06 UTC
Remember that who you engage, NPC or PC will have resistance holes. That is the ammo you use. This page will help: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Damage_types

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Oraac Ensor
#3 - 2014-12-07 17:51:36 UTC
Another page that's worth a look: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Projectile_Ammunition
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#4 - 2014-12-07 18:16:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Cymek Agamemnon wrote:
So I downloaded EFT and have been messing around with it but am struggling on knowing what ammo is worth loading at what times. EFT clearly shows the DPS but some ammo have range bonuses or tracking bonuses and I don't see how that is incorporated. Like EMP S and Phased Plasma have high DPS but -50% range means you have to be really close. The Titanium has better range but lower DPS. I started carrying around different ammo in my ship but other than the DPS value I'm not sure how to think about what I should actually be loading in any given fight.


Projectile ammo is a bit weird:

- the 3 main short range ammo types are EMP, Phased Plasma (PP) and Fusion. these have the biggest range penalty but do the most damage, they simply differ in damage type.

- 2 medium range, medium dps ammo types with high tracking bonus

- 3 long range ammo, low dps differing in damage type and a slight tracking bonus


For autocannons you only use the main 3 dps types since those range bonuses or penalties ONLY apply to optimal, there is simply no reason to use anything else (not counting T2 ammo).

For arties it's kinda similar as long as you fight an "even size" target, it's STILL just the best to use the 3 main dps ammo types. The tracking bonus ammo types, one of which is kinetic focused, still isn't worth the dps loss. Arties have a very long falloff range which kinda nullifies the range/tracking bonuses of the other damage types simply because it's not as good as the base dps increase from the high dps ammo. Would you fight smaller targets (like shooting at cruiser while using 1200s or 1400s) then the medium range tracking ammo does have a place as long as the damage types are useful.


In short; only bring EMP, PP and Fusion and forget about the rest. Only the T2 ammo types have a real use, in particular Barrage for AC and Quake or Tremor for Arty. You won't use Barrage much in PVE (unless you fly a Vargur or similar, but even then it's kinda silly) but if you use arties then Quake does have its place against short range targets since it gives a massive tracking boost while also being high dps.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-12-07 18:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Check out the dps graphs in EFT. It will plot your damage as a function of range, and allows you to modify speed/direction to see how tracking affects your damage application. It's normally a bit too in-depth for everyday purposes but it's worth a look.

Normally you consider engagement range when you fit your ship. "Outside scram range because my tank is light" or "as close as possible to maximize blaster damage" etc. What you pick normally depends on who your opponent is and the best way to mitigate their damage. Sometimes your fit is flexible enough to have multiple viable engagement ranges, such as an Atron that can load antimatter and orbit under the guns of it's opponent or load null and kite near the edge of scram range (with lower dps but much longer range).

To get started carry the shortest range highest damage ammo as well as some longer range ammo. The t1 long range ammo is sort of underwhelming but the t2 long range ammo (like null and barrage) can be very useful. Figuring out which to use comes with experience and knowledge of your opponents' fits.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2014-12-07 18:20:45 UTC
Copy-pasting from an earlier thread touching on this subject.



When using very short range weapons (Blasters and Autocannons) is doesn't really make sense to use ammo that is only going to increase range by 100 to 500m while cutting into your damage by as much as half. That distance can be easily covered by a moving ship with a propulsion mod (like an Afterburner or Microwarpdrive).

As a result, short range weapons tend to stick to the highest damage ammo available. There are two exceptions to this though.

- Tech 2 short range ammo: this is a situational ammo. It only does about ~10% more damage than faction short range ammo but cuts tracking by around 20%. This is causes some problems when two ships of equal size brawl at very close range... because the ship speeds will often overcome the ability for the guns to track the target (turret tracking in EVE is absolute, not relative). Against stationary, larger targets, or with a ship that has a tracking bonus... it can be quite useful.

- Tech 2 long range ammo: This ammo adds ~40% more range with the damage dealing ability of non-range affecting ammo. This ammo also also cuts tracking, but at longer ranges this becomes less of an issue.


Pulse Lasers are a little strange in that they behave more like long range weaponry. Most of the above still applies to them, but you can get away with using a wider verity of crystals (ammo) compared to other weaponry.
I personally load my laserboats with Multifrequency (short range), Standard (mid-range), and Radio/Scorch (long range/T2 long range).

Other long range weapons also follow the same paradigm as Pulse Lasers when it comes to ammo (short range, mid-range, extreme long range).


Missiles are a different matter entirely.

How did you Veterans start?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-12-08 17:30:31 UTC
Gunnery and Tracking can be a little complicated and are worth some reading up on but to stay on topic with this specific question I would like to point out the following.

Optimal is the max range at which you have the potential to do max damage. Falloff the range beyond optimal at which you do half damage potentially. So optimal + falloff = half damage potential. I say potential here because all of this ignores movement and tracking. This is your theoretical base damage from which everything is figured.

With projectiles you will often do more damage well into your falloff than you will at or below optimal but that is a different discussion entirely.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Cymek Agamemnon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-12-09 12:39:16 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Gunnery and Tracking can be a little complicated and are worth some reading up on but to stay on topic with this specific question I would like to point out the following.

Optimal is the max range at which you have the potential to do max damage. Falloff the range beyond optimal at which you do half damage potentially. So optimal + falloff = half damage potential. I say potential here because all of this ignores movement and tracking. This is your theoretical base damage from which everything is figured.

With projectiles you will often do more damage well into your falloff than you will at or below optimal but that is a different discussion entirely.


Yeah I think I need to read up in the wiki on tracking. I've been trying to orbit inside my optimal range thinking if 600m is optimal I should try to orbit at 500m but that doesn't appear to be correct. I noticed when I figured out how to change ammo types in EFT and the velocity dials on the DPS graph how much is changes once you add relative motion in.