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Dev blog: Physically Based Rendering and making EVE look "Real"

First post First post
Author
Noriko Mai
#21 - 2014-12-08 16:55:39 UTC
Quote:
We could introduce a new material, apply dynamic dirt levels (older ships showing their age?)

Please do Big smile It would be awesome!

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Eessi
Murderous Inc
Me Hearties
#22 - 2014-12-08 16:55:42 UTC
Love the chrome on Gallente wheels! <3
GRIEV3R
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#23 - 2014-12-08 17:12:39 UTC
I'm really excited about this change! I'm sure you guys have a lot of tweaks planned to make certain ships look better - I just want to offer two suggestions for your consideration. First, I think Gallente ships in general look a little too glossy, and the panel gaps look almost cartoonish (reminds me of Borderlands). Second, I want to bring to your attention the state of the texture resolution on my beloved Vexors and Ishtars. I feel like of all the ships that you might be considering for an art overhaul, the Vexor should be like, at least in the top three. But that's just, like, my opinion, man. Regardless, I'm really happy about PBR. Great job, CCP!
Anna Tomy
Caille University Art Faculty
#24 - 2014-12-08 17:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Anna Tomy
Okay, only minor impact on performance...
But what about very low-end computers (like Notebooks or TabletPCs with onboard graphics)?
How does it affect players that use the lowest graphics settings?
Will it be visible at all? Is there a way to deactivate it? Will it raise the minimum specs of EVE?

(Luckily, I still have a monster desktop machine to admire PBR in all its full glory. Looks nice!)
Dante Khimera
Nigra in Equo
#25 - 2014-12-08 17:14:09 UTC
Hey! I don't know if this is the right place, but I'd love to have more info about the artistic job on those ships. They look fabulous !
Did the art team had to re-author specular textures in terms of roughness/metalness like in Unreal Engine 4 or did you manage to take those and plug them "as it" in your new renderer ?
Ezekiel Marr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-12-08 17:23:45 UTC
Quote:
We could introduce a new material, apply dynamic dirt levels (older ships showing their age?)


Does that mean that... there's a chance that... Minmatar ships will be rusty again?
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#27 - 2014-12-08 17:26:07 UTC
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Also I want to give huge thanks to CCP Antiquarian, who helped me a lot with the wording and the sentences and the paragraphs and all that!

So please blame me for all the facts and praise him for the words!

Big thanks, man!!!


If you guys implemented visual wear and tear for old ships, like hinted at in the dev blog, would it be retroactive?

That is to say, is the date and time for when a ship is assembled ('un-packaged') stored in a database, or are ships technically ageless now?
Jojii
RoboGen Inc
#28 - 2014-12-08 17:42:12 UTC
Is there a way to have the dark side of ships actually be dark? this is space and all. The ambient light everywhere makes everything all fuzzy. This could be fine in the nebula systems but is the more isolated system where you just have a star?
CCP BunnyVirus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2014-12-08 18:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP BunnyVirus
Dante Khimera wrote:
Hey! I don't know if this is the right place, but I'd love to have more info about the artistic job on those ships. They look fabulous !
Did the art team had to re-author specular textures in terms of roughness/metalness like in Unreal Engine 4 or did you manage to take those and plug them "as it" in your new renderer ?



We had to re-author not only specular into roughness we also had to re-author diffuse maps into albedo maps.


We are already experimenting how we can use the roughness map to get a better variety and control in how our assets look like

3D Artist

Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#30 - 2014-12-08 18:09:11 UTC
I guess you can say that the new light modeling looks pretty... Schlick.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#31 - 2014-12-08 18:12:07 UTC
With this new effect has the fact that in the past the sun being in frame changed the lighting effect even more been fixed.

It would be nice to tell even with your camera "back to the sun" which direction the sun is in relation to the ship.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#32 - 2014-12-08 18:15:30 UTC
I don't like the look of caldari hulls, they look like plastic models in space. I hope it's just bad images.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#33 - 2014-12-08 18:20:43 UTC
My Eve doesn't look anywhere near what the old graphics could achieve.

Id imagine my computer would burn a hole in the floor through to the basement if I turned the graphics up now :)
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#34 - 2014-12-08 18:30:11 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I don't like the look of caldari hulls, they look like plastic models in space. I hope it's just bad images.


This.

Caldari and Minmatar, due to their design themes, wind up looking worse in most cases. The drake, especially, looks as you said like a slightly melted plastic model. The gunmetal gray of most caldari ships isn't going to reflect much light, so gets no benefit from the new system, and you lose the definition of its edges which is something that the new system relies on reflections to show.

Amarr (shiny red and gold) and Gallente (shiny green and silver) look way better.
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#35 - 2014-12-08 18:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lil' Brudder Too
Sooo, i had just looked at those same ships on SiSi moments before i read that blog....

While i was looking at the new ships i kept saying, that looks nothing like it...the one i'm seeing has no color minus a few spots...

Then my borther looks at them on his PC...his looks MUCH different....so we compare graphics settings...

As it was, most ships looked absolutely terribad on my PC...with these settings (note, not exactly 'everything at lowest possible' )

A-A = medium
P-P = Low
Shader = Medium
Texture = High
LOD = High
Shadow = Low
Interior EFX = Medium
Interior Shader = Low

---
Now once i changed everything to max did the ships look decent. Brutix still looks like i'm flying a chrome Christmas tree ornament.

I'm sorry, but did you even consider those of us that don't run our clients on full max GFX settings before you made the non-full versions? Very disappointed.

--
Okay, so i narrowed the biggest "ugliness" culprit down....its the "shader quality"

With everything else set on "high"...here is what happens with the model when changing "shader quality" from high-medium-low....something is off here....

High
Medium
Low

Maybe someone (i don't know, maybe the Imbedded QA????) should test their stuff before saying its 'done'. Good form CCP.

I suspect it is like this for numerous other ships as well. But since i'm paying you (CCP) to test these sort of things while you are developing them...and not the other way around...i have other things more important to do.
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#36 - 2014-12-08 18:55:40 UTC
Quote:
And of course, there is always ship customization.


Right. Any news you can share about that?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#37 - 2014-12-08 18:58:28 UTC
CCP BunnyVirus wrote:
Dante Khimera wrote:
Hey! I don't know if this is the right place, but I'd love to have more info about the artistic job on those ships. They look fabulous !
Did the art team had to re-author specular textures in terms of roughness/metalness like in Unreal Engine 4 or did you manage to take those and plug them "as it" in your new renderer ?



We had to re-author not only specular into roughness we also had to re-author diffuse maps into albedo maps.


We are already experimenting how we can use the roughness map to get a better variety and control in how our assets look like

**** that, show us conceptual work, early iterations and the process of re-designing a ship.

And SAVE THE LANCE!
Idgarad
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-12-08 19:07:47 UTC
My biggest concern in the last 10 years of CGI is in the pursuit of 'realism' in graphics we lose a bit of the charm of a video game. I'd rather my game feel more like Tron then CoD. That aside there is a problem I see often in newer rendering systems:

In moving to PBR the material definitions developers have used tend to make everything look like matte plastic or crumpled up aluminium foil. The earliest problem I saw was in games that had chrome-like materials where it looked like someone took foil crumpled it up, and hammered it out to a flat surface. My guess was they early on had to figure out how to dodge a real reflection. It still is a problem in games as recent as Tomb Raider, Dark Souls 2, and most MMOs still to date. Looking at the shots of the Amarr ships for example. the gold metallic points look more like they've been dusted with glitter but that could be implementation issues on the hardware itself. Some of the shots look good, like they are plates of metal, and in some others that glitter\grainy\'crunchy?' effect seems more present. Most of the ships still look like they are made of plastic rather then a solid metal (Gallente it's much more pronounced). I am wondering if the material updates later on will fix it or if minor noise function is needed.

Q1: Does the new PBR system still allow for bump mapping data to be included? Looking at the Brutix example the plate lines on the ship seem to loose their sharpness, they look more painted on then a plate boundary. Would updated Bump Mapping data help that?

Q2: Is the plastic-esque effect something that is the result of the material data of the ship's textures?

Q3: With the advent of HDR is the max white point something that can be tuned? Looking at the Apocalypse sample often the brightest points end up a white mess washing out the image. Is there HDR data that the new rendering pipe can use to temper that effect?

Q4: Can we get a JJ Abrams option to throw a **** ton of lens flares around for no reason ; ? see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuUiENIuPI for reference.
James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-12-08 19:08:10 UTC
I like how the stills look, but I'm really excited to see how the lighting looks in a more dynamic setting, like as my ship is moving and rotating in relation to light sources and as I'm adjusting the camera angle.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-12-08 19:13:35 UTC
Oh wow...the new ships f*cking SHINE I love this!!!Shocked