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CCP Fixing Gallente Soon?

Author
ALTternate
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-12-16 14:44:54 UTC
mkint wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
. ECM brings the role of force multiplier to the game and in that role it is perfectly balanced.

And by this, you mean "omg, my wtfsolopwnmobile will be balanced in line with the other ships! no way!"

Actually, I'm not particularly against 1 ewar ship shutting down multiple targets (i.e. force multiplication). The reason I'm particularly against ECM as it exists is because it's not balanced. No other race has a force multiplier at all if judged by the same standards. No other race has an ewar where the only defense of against it can completely fail to do it's job. No other race has an ewar where the mere threat of the possibility of encountering that ewar forces the defenders to decide if they will waste a slot on a defensive module that doesn't really do anything. And finally, ECM kills opportunities for creative fleet compositions and tactics (and rock/paper/scissors.)


I think the other ewars should be buffed.

Also, if you're going to start pulling this fantastic line every time you post

"The reason I'm particularly against ECM as it exists is because it's not balanced. No other race has a force multiplier at all if judged by the same standards. No other race has an ewar where the only defense of against it can completely fail to do it's job."

Then you're going to continue to open up a huge can of worms.

We all know the races are different and this reality is highlighted by ewar. Is it fair that Minmatar can pretty much zip around and destroy most opponents with little danger? What other race has a such a strong representation in PvP? If you're going to start arguing racial balance I think we need to look at the much bigger picture and not just ewar.

BTW, there are counters to ECM. I know you hate the idea of fitting a module to counter another, but seriously fit one and suddenly ECM becomes much more manageable.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2011-12-16 14:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kaylyis wrote:

Speed boost and agility are nice. Still cannot catch targets for blaster love and hugs is the point I believe, amongst other things.

Yes we got a speed boost.

No, it wasn't enough to get us into engagement range with blasters before we pop. The main ***** about gallente is the supposed focus on blasters.


My mega out runs and out manovers most BCs it meets now and the combat range of blasters is perfectly fine so long as you dont try to fly them like an auto ship.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#43 - 2011-12-16 15:01:18 UTC
I am for the rebalancing by way of the EWar rock/paper/scissors suggestion. Maybe the way to go with that first would be to balance Amarr vs Minmatar and then the Gallente vs the Caldari. Maybe I am biased as a RP'er but it makes more sense that way and then much variety may pop up since many fleet composites could be invented with all the crossover that occurs in day to day EVE warfare.


Slade
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#44 - 2011-12-16 15:48:52 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.


*cough* Beams *cough*

Scorch is the new Beams.


This.

Aurora/ Tach is a flash light. I passive locked a dram once at 240 km with a tinfoil Apoc and while I freaked him out and he went out to 300 km to break my lock, there was never any chance of me killing him.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#45 - 2011-12-16 15:59:14 UTC
My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#46 - 2011-12-16 16:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Messoroz wrote:
My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.


Few people use Rails to their best effect, nice to see someone that does.


Quote:
Making close range weapons have a slow RoF is a bad idea, high transversal will wreak havoc on low RoF weapons much more than high RoF weapons.


Correct (although blasters just got a nice tracking bonus and ammo tweaks), tracking would have to be properly balanced for the weapon base stats, and tracking modules would likely become even more of a priority.

Slow Rate of Fire/High Alpha weapons require slightly different tactics to use to their full advantage. The drawback is of course as you say... if you miss it's a lot more serious than with a high ROF weapon. That is generally why the emphasis with Artilliary is on the HUGE alpha, that is it's benefit and needs to be leveraged properly. The same would apply to blasters, with the added trickyness of likely NOT operating in fall off where tracking issues are mitigated to a degree.

To me, the change in emphasis on what a blaster pilot would fit (not that it would be all that different than it is now, as tracking is critical even with the current stats) would help make them more distinct from Auto Cannon fits and tactics. I "like" the fact that if you haven't set up for range control and high tracking you will be in a world of hurt... but if you have your target will choke on huge chunks of incoming damage.

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Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2011-12-16 17:41:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:

Speed boost and agility are nice. Still cannot catch targets for blaster love and hugs is the point I believe, amongst other things.

Yes we got a speed boost.

No, it wasn't enough to get us into engagement range with blasters before we pop. The main ***** about gallente is the supposed focus on blasters.


My mega out runs and out manovers most BCs it meets now and the combat range of blasters is perfectly fine so long as you dont try to fly them like an auto ship.


your mega is out-tanked, out-dps'd and out-ranged by any amarr and minnie bs. taking down bc's with ease is something every bs should be capable of. and only the shield mega with 2-3 TE's in lows has decent damage projection (still laughed at by any pulse boat).
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-12-16 17:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Messoroz wrote:
My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.


i dont know, this sounds like a whole bunch of hot air to me. im not saying i dont believe you, im sure you got on the killmails. but the mega pulse oracles and arty tornadoes did all the work for sure. unless you can give me some examples, im afraid youre not contributing anything to the thread. large rails have nothing to offer over arties and mega pulses with scorch.

in addition, this does not address the issue with medium rails, which are awful.



but really, id love to get some sort of response from CCP regarding upcoming plans for overall ship balancing and Gallente fixing.
mkint
#49 - 2011-12-16 17:55:55 UTC
Grimpak wrote:


your solution, posted on another post, would totally remove the "force multiplier" role of ECM, making it a hindrance no bigger than a TP, since you would need to focus all your ewar in a single ship, and make it totally useless vs ships like logis that can lock 10 targets. And "creative fleet composition and tactics" is a bit relative. It is possible to make a creative fleet with ECM, that can beat a bigger fleet with no way to counter it, and that's what ECM is supposed to do.

Someone else posted a no-relock delay idea that might be acceptable if:

All other racial ewar boats had a 100% role bonus to their ewar (thus providing that force multiplier mechanic to other races). and ECCM had some benefit in addition to countering ECM.

ECM is a bad mechanic, from the randomness, to the counter, to it's ability to 100% completely remove someone from a fight rather than reduce their effectiveness.

I was going to suggest earlier that what if ECM, instead of breaking locks ECM had a 100% chance of offlining random modules? ECCM would be changed to reduce the capacitor needed to online those modules (and maybe a scripted secondary benefit, like reducing heat from overloading?) I'm not sure how this would balance with rock/paper/scissors ewar between the races, but either way, pretty much ANY other idea is better than ECM as it is now.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2011-12-16 17:58:02 UTC
yep, there's a reason WoW moved away from RNG effects. they make pvp ******* stupid.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2011-12-16 19:47:17 UTC
Crias Taylor wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.


Well the fact you put a close range gun in with long range guns should tell you pulse is pretty broken. 

wrong, pulses are still relatively close range, with DPS dwindling severely as you switch to farther optimal crystals, and they are easy to overpower in a long term engagement IN FACT the biggest weakness of amarr pulse ships is their ******** levels of cap usage which IMO i belive is enough of a counterbalance to their high volley ability.

though arties have high alpha AND optimal and have NO excuse.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-12-17 01:50:11 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Crias Taylor wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
there's absolutely no reason why rails should not be able to do what arties and pulses can.


Well the fact you put a close range gun in with long range guns should tell you pulse is pretty broken. 

wrong, pulses are still relatively close range, with DPS dwindling severely as you switch to farther optimal crystals, and they are easy to overpower in a long term engagement IN FACT the biggest weakness of amarr pulse ships is their ******** levels of cap usage which IMO i belive is enough of a counterbalance to their high volley ability.

though arties have high alpha AND optimal and have NO excuse.

actually, arties have the smallest optimal of all long range weapons. the 1200mm for example even has a bigger falloff than optimal.



they do however have the biggest falloff.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Tore Vest
#53 - 2011-12-17 01:56:30 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
My gallente alt now has 200+ kills with a rail Talos, stop whining and innovate beyond trying to use cookie cutter blaster fits on ******* everything like all the other nubs.


Killmail whoring... eh? Bear

No troll.

Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-12-17 16:24:23 UTC
bump, id still like an answer
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-12-17 17:43:12 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Removing Rig Penalties would be a big start.

Between Gallente Armor Ships with Armor Rigs that don't hurt there Speed, Astronautics Rigs that increase it w/o hurting there tank and Hybrid Rigs that can be fit with a rack of Neutrons well that would definitely help a lot.

As long as Arties with there Massive Alpha and Selectable Dmg Types and Scorch that has the fleet range with greater tracking and Dmg Exist then Rails and Beams will always be a foot note.


Removing rig penalties would be a massive failure. Can you imagine an armor tanked hurricane with no loss to speed? All that would do is make minmatar even more OP. The changes to fix Gallente MUST be done specifically to Gallente hulls. If its done to Modules then all that will happen is the other races with just be that much better. The problem is the hulls of Gallente ships (all the attributes) and hybrids. Bonus, stats etc must directly be adjusted.
Alara IonStorm
#56 - 2011-12-17 17:50:49 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:

Can you imagine an armor tanked hurricane with no loss to speed? All that would do is make minmatar even more OP.

Your example is flawed a faster Armor Cane would not be much of an issue. It would not have it's Nano Agility / Speed, Dmg and Range enjoyed by the much used Shield Counterpart. It's use as a rush Armor DPS Ship would see some improvements but inside Blaster Range where it would fight it would have a difficult time competing.

The benefits to Gallente far outstretch the 3 Minmatar Hulls this would help. Add in more Hybrid Balancing and this is a step in the right direction.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#57 - 2011-12-17 22:39:58 UTC
friendly bump
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2011-12-17 22:47:31 UTC
and up
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#59 - 2011-12-18 01:44:12 UTC
Midori Tsu wrote:
The Talos is the only not being used, due to having to be at 0 and no tank, you might as well just get a Brutix.


Thought the exact same the first time I looked at Talos fits. The recent hybrid changes are good but I think CCP still need to look a little at Gallente. Not saying they should make them just like other races but perhaps just better at what they do.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#60 - 2011-12-18 02:29:48 UTC
mkint wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


your solution, posted on another post, would totally remove the "force multiplier" role of ECM, making it a hindrance no bigger than a TP, since you would need to focus all your ewar in a single ship, and make it totally useless vs ships like logis that can lock 10 targets. And "creative fleet composition and tactics" is a bit relative. It is possible to make a creative fleet with ECM, that can beat a bigger fleet with no way to counter it, and that's what ECM is supposed to do.

Someone else posted a no-relock delay idea that might be acceptable if:

All other racial ewar boats had a 100% role bonus to their ewar (thus providing that force multiplier mechanic to other races). and ECCM had some benefit in addition to countering ECM.

ECM is a bad mechanic, from the randomness, to the counter, to it's ability to 100% completely remove someone from a fight rather than reduce their effectiveness.

I was going to suggest earlier that what if ECM, instead of breaking locks ECM had a 100% chance of offlining random modules? ECCM would be changed to reduce the capacitor needed to online those modules (and maybe a scripted secondary benefit, like reducing heat from overloading?) I'm not sure how this would balance with rock/paper/scissors ewar between the races, but either way, pretty much ANY other idea is better than ECM as it is now.



Hmmm, as a secondary effect of ECCM I could see it reducing Sig Radius.

Sig radius is a reflection of a ships electronic signature, I could see the distortion put out by ECCM effectively having a low key but noticeable effect on lock times, missile accuracy, scanning efficiency, etc.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.