These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP Mankiller: About PBR

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Laerise
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#61 - 2014-12-06 16:55:07 UTC
The amarr ship line up is simply glorious, good work ccp! :)
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#62 - 2014-12-06 17:13:38 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
I think it's a bit of a shame how everyone voicing their concerns here are being brushed off as emotional about a few ships, or not providing sufficient technical detail for CCP to care taking the feedback into account. I wonder why anyone is here in this test server feedback forum in the first place, maybe perhaps they care about the game.


Nobody's brushing you off. The process going forward for iterating on our ships and faction looks will be to identify issues with particular ships and factions and fix them. Comments that specifically say what you do or don't like about a ship or faction are very helpful.

One major reason that comments like "I don't like PBR, please pull PBR from the release" aren't helpful: It's not going to happen. The complexity and scale of the change are far too great to roll it back in any reasonable timeframe.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#63 - 2014-12-06 17:18:23 UTC
it would be nice if every pirate faction had unique hulls not just slight deviations or modifications from the base hull.
serpentis could use a defining look and stronger lore .. atm the moment all they have is 90% massively OP webs as their gimmick, they are basically gallente with 90% webs and nothing more ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#64 - 2014-12-06 17:46:49 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
One major reason that comments like "I don't like PBR, please pull PBR from the release" aren't helpful: It's not going to happen. The complexity and scale of the change are far too great to roll it back in any reasonable timeframe.

Perhaps if this had been stated from the very outset feedback could have been concentrated on fixing specific ships or factions. Not having a technical grasp of the scope of what was all involved, we've been left to simply "guess" what was or wasn't working as intended with the various unannounced updates to SiSi. You've more or less left everyone to operate in a vacuum by not providing any specifics or details up until basically the last minute.

PBR is going to be an unmitigated disaster, but don't take our word for it.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#65 - 2014-12-06 19:43:16 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
PBR is going to be an unmitigated disaster, but don't take our word for it.

Enough of this drama, there will be usual whine like always, changes or lack of changes, there is always someone whining over something and it is a part of development just from the beginning. Roll

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Lady Rohk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2014-12-06 20:14:27 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
I think it's a bit of a shame how everyone voicing their concerns here are being brushed off as emotional about a few ships, or not providing sufficient technical detail for CCP to care taking the feedback into account. I wonder why anyone is here in this test server feedback forum in the first place, maybe perhaps they care about the game.


Nobody's brushing you off. The process going forward for iterating on our ships and faction looks will be to identify issues with particular ships and factions and fix them. Comments that specifically say what you do or don't like about a ship or faction are very helpful.

One major reason that comments like "I don't like PBR, please pull PBR from the release" aren't helpful: It's not going to happen. The complexity and scale of the change are far too great to roll it back in any reasonable timeframe.



While I really like the new rendering, I can't help but feel that it makes the ships look more like they're in a light room, rather than a universe. Perhaps this is just the uniformity of the textures that makes it looks overly-simple and too perfect, Rather than having tiny little imperfections that make the ships look more real.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#67 - 2014-12-06 20:16:25 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Enough of this drama, there will be usual whine like always, changes or lack of changes, there is always someone whining over something and it is a part of development just from the beginning. Roll

If the devs can't gleam anything from the majority of the feedback that's been provided here, their loss. And as for you, get bent.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#68 - 2014-12-06 20:26:15 UTC
PBR will be implemented and that is not their last word. Capiche? Since when they stopped making graphic updates? Never. Just wait and stop whining.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#69 - 2014-12-06 20:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Murkar Omaristos
Not all ships look worse and I'm sure since CCP has stated this will definitely not be rolled back, then the best we can do is stop whining and hope that they will remove the rust, fix the pirate ships to their proper colors, and update the textures on gallente etc. so that they are made for PBR and look better with it.

Anyways.....thx for the input CCP Darwin. I think there are lessons to be learned here about how much change the community can handle all at once - some of these complaints are surely the result of too much change at once rather than actual problems. \o/
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#70 - 2014-12-06 20:36:19 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
it would be nice if every pirate faction had unique hulls not just slight deviations or modifications from the base hull.
serpentis could use a defining look and stronger lore .. atm the moment all they have is 90% massively OP webs as their gimmick, they are basically gallente with 90% webs and nothing more ..

We are discussing PBR here, not the niche of a specific pirate faction...

Because tities .
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#71 - 2014-12-06 20:44:16 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:
We are discussing PBR here, not the niche of a specific pirate faction...

Since PBR is going ahead regardless, I would suggest perhaps only implementing one race at a time and leave the original ship textures in place for the others. Amarr seems to be the furthest ahead in terms of benefitting from PBR, so they're the logical choice for Rhea. Tie-in the updates for Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar and Pirates (in that order) with the new T3 Tactical Destroyers. No feathers are ruffled, it will be perceived as steady upgrades and everyone wins.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#72 - 2014-12-06 20:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Since PBR is going ahead regardless, I would suggest perhaps only implementing one race at a time and leave the original ship textures in place for the others. Amarr seems to be the furthest ahead in terms of benefitting from PBR, so they're the logical choice for Rhea. Tie-in the updates for Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar and Pirates (in that order) with the new T3 Tactical Destroyers. No feathers are ruffled, it will be perceived as steady upgrades and everyone wins.

I agree, but I think you misunderstood me, I'm telling this gentelman here that we are discussing PBR in this post, not if some faction should have a different hull or a different bonus.

But yeah, definetly that would do, it would even make sence because the only tactical destro is gonna be the confessor and also because the most favoured ships (even that the paladin sux xD) are the amarrian.

Because tities .
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-12-06 23:22:21 UTC
Great work with PBR, it updates EVE-Online to today's standards.

My only problem... the dominix needs a redesign... like seriously ;)

Been around since the beginning.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#74 - 2014-12-07 01:44:00 UTC
Wasn't the point of the new release schedule so that features that where not ready could be put off to the next patch so as to not make TQ into a beta version game?

Just asking... because while I do see the positive side to PBR, it's def. not a finished product for the time being - and launching it is likely to be a real mess in the current form... I think that since this is still in the WIP phase it should remain on SISI until it's ready for a proper roll out, and then we can all celebrate a prettier EVE w/o the trauma.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#75 - 2014-12-07 01:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
CCP Darwin wrote:
One major reason that comments like "I don't like PBR, please pull PBR from the release" aren't helpful: It's not going to happen. The complexity and scale of the change are far too great to roll it back in any reasonable timeframe.


I understand the work that has been done, but it has not yet hit TQ in order to be "rolled back" yet.

Surely it can remain on the test server until it is in a state where it isn't reducing the visual quality of so many ships?

Does the new 10 release cycle not allow this? Has it not happened with various other not-quite-ready features already.

I understand the frustration of "I don't like PBR" not being helpful, but only so many people have the time to write up long posts with dozens of screenshots. I think it's not outlandish to say that more than sufficient feedback was provided, with all the other posts in-between simply being acknowledgements of the same dissatisfaction and concern.

As others have said, we understand PBR is happening and has been worked on too long not to happen, with the parallels to Incarna being just a little bit dramatic, but I think peoples concern with it hitting TQ is CCP's ability to "fix" it within a short time frame. After all we seem to be talking about the vast majority of the ships textures in the game needing a work over to make them work properly with PBR. Any such update with that scope before has taken months and months to finish.

Even on the ships showcased to already be working with PBR, where the colours are as intended, there is still a very noticeable reduction in texture detail. It very much feels and indeed looks like a new lighting system forced over old assets, in most cases degrading the quality of the texture work that wasn't designed for it.

As of right now, even with the best case ships, I cannot see what the intended improvement of PBR is meant to be. I'm positive it's technically superior, but that is not coming across with the games assets. Comparing TQ to sisi makes me feel like I've somehow dramatically lowered my games texture detail and lighting quality settings.
Cajun Style
Shattered Planet
#76 - 2014-12-07 02:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Cajun Style
I THINK THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL, YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB CCP.

a couple of hiccups, minor things that need some touching up here and there, but yall have been doing a splendid job. in days gone by I wouldn't ~trust~ ccp with anything when it came to following up on making sure that stuff added to or changed in the game was in a good state, but yall have been doing great recently and i have every reason to be hopeful about the art team's work as they have, tbh, never really failed us before

also just from their avatar it's hard to take OP's opinions on aesthetic sensibilities seriously... speaking of which the gallente ships in particular are gorgeous now, the talos in particular is spectacular, as are the minmatar ships... the improvement to the lighting and shadows while actually out in space, however, is what is really stands out as a huge improvement. the ship viewer and station environment don't really demonstrate what the big change is. even if the dragoon is glitched on its front panels, which is really the only seriously borked visuals on any ship i've seen. As for the sansha's ships, i think they look solid.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-12-07 05:11:45 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
One major reason that comments like "I don't like PBR, please pull PBR from the release" aren't helpful: It's not going to happen. The complexity and scale of the change are far too great to roll it back in any reasonable timeframe.

Then you're going to run into massive amounts of far less reasonable criticism, threats of unsubscriptions, actual unsubscriptions, anger and distrust from the community when PBR is released, people inevitably don't like it, and people inevitably discover that your testers warned you about it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-12-07 07:12:53 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
I think it's a bit of a shame how everyone voicing their concerns here are being brushed off as emotional about a few ships, or not providing sufficient technical detail for CCP to care taking the feedback into account. I wonder why anyone is here in this test server feedback forum in the first place, maybe perhaps they care about the game.


Nobody's brushing you off. The process going forward for iterating on our ships and faction looks will be to identify issues with particular ships and factions and fix them. Comments that specifically say what you do or don't like about a ship or faction are very helpful.

One major reason that comments like "I don't like PBR, please pull PBR from the release" aren't helpful: It's not going to happen. The complexity and scale of the change are far too great to roll it back in any reasonable timeframe.


There seems to be VERY little acknowledgement from ccp toward those that do provide specific details though, like the complaints about blood raiders losing their iconic red paintjobs, no longer looking red anymore, and the Sansha ships going from a green and brown semi camo, to an unpainted silver appearance. In these particular cases, it's like a major step backward in visual appeal.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#79 - 2014-12-07 08:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
trauma.

Yes, and the end of world is upon us. P

This dramatic, emotional notes over different shades of gray is silly. PBR is doing great job only with lighting, as for colors, its always something what suits you, and thats the reason actual ships painting should be developed.
Ships need bigger textures for better details also.

Untill then, we will fly zoomed out just like always. P

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#80 - 2014-12-07 09:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Yes, and the end of world is upon us. P

This dramatic, emotional notes over different shades of gray is silly. PBR is doing great job only with lighting, as for colors, its always something what suits you, and thats the reason actual ships painting should be developed.
Ships need bigger textures for better details also.

Untill then, we will fly zoomed out just like always. P

We realise that features such as the notifications and the new map need a lot of feedback and thats the reason for deploying them on tq as beta but thats not the PBR's case, because it's not the same type of sthing and because the feedback has been given more than enough.

As has been said already people get emotionally attached to their ships and we can foresee drama incoming.

In fact most of these people are carebears that spend 100% of their time in jita and in the missioning nodes, but also nullbears and wormholers (with static to highsec xD) that spend hours ship sinning and pos spinning faping on their magnificent ships and will feel this update more likely as a step back, even you agree thats a step back to allow for two steps forward, later.

There has been a post for a high resolution texture pack in the GD forum for as long as i can remember.

Then you and all of us agree that the problem is the textures, then dont you think thats time to put PBR on hold, until the textures are properly done? a thing that has been asked for years?

You say release them and deal with the shitstorm, we say postpone it and spare yourselves the shitstorm, i think this would be wiser...

Besides, i think this is the perfect opportunity for CCP to kill 2 birds with 1 shot.

Because tities .