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While you're complaining about Hisec PI spare a thought...
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Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#101 - 2011-12-09 23:50:43 UTC
I love when the privileged cry about how hard they have it.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Celery Man
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2011-12-10 07:02:53 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
Poor you, you don't have to pay taxes Cry


Poor you, you have to live in Hisec :)
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#103 - 2011-12-10 08:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Bloody Wench wrote:
Lets say you spend 120M on taxes a month for your Hisec PI adventures, unlikely, but lets just say.

In 5 months time, 150 days, if I haven't had any of the POCOs blown up then we'll be even. Every day after those 5 months, sure I'll be pulling ahead, until they do get blown up. Then for each one that goes down it puts me a month behind again.

My choice.

I love the way you throw that at me.
You say it like you have no choice. CCP Hillmar standing behind you with a .45 is he?

I don't normally find it worth my time to berrate people on the interwebs, however this time. The shear volume of retardation permeating the forums is staggering.

Hisec PI isn't going to lose money. I might, Hisec won't. EU is up to 15k a unit right now. Robotics over 86k.

Let me dredge up this tired cliche just one more time.

I'm going to outlay several billion ISK in infrastructure, in an environment where at any tick of the clock it can all be lost. This affords me the opportunity to make 4-5 times the quantity of PI product that hisec does, and pay no tax on it.

Hisec however your outlay is in the tens of millions isk, and nobody can take it away from you.

As much as it displeases me to say it, there is your risk vs reward. You ante up nothing but expect so much in return.

I hope that at this point you see the overwhelming disparity, and cease your bellyaching.



Well I pay 57 mill a week in high sec Taxs now per toon. I have 2 accounts and 3 toons on each so thats 57 mil times 6 is 342 mil a week for me on PI in High Sec. So thats 228 mil a month per toon so 228 mil times 6 is 1.3 bill ruffly a Month.

Though personly I never minded and was only pissed becouse of bad Comunication from CCP it was not even in the patch notes.

Just like in real life I passed the taxs on to the customer. So it changes nothing for me. It will over time raise all produces that ether need a POS running or use PI in it's manufacutering.

So that means Tech 2 just got double wammied by this twice. Once when the moon goo is mined and refined and again when it's manufacured.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#104 - 2011-12-10 09:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Bloody Wench wrote:
It would seem that time is up on the discussion of this matter.

As per this statement

Quote:

taxes for concord and interbus customs stations are working correctly
reported by CCP Guard | 2011.12.01 17:18:43 | NEW

We have received a number of petitions, asking if new tax rates of the NPC Customs Offices are working properly as they are in some cases drastically higher compared to the pre-Crucible tax rates. Our developers have confirmed that the tax rates match the design specifications. Please read this post for more information about the new tax rate on NPC Custom Offices.



I could say something along the lines of neener neener the free ride is over, but that would be juvenile.



Every bodys free ride is over yours too Bloody. You will pay the taxs every time you buy anything that need a POS running or any PI in it's making.

No matter if you yourself are paying any taxs on your PI or not.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#105 - 2011-12-10 10:03:47 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The reason that goons are getting the blame is partially due to some things being said by EoG and by being the most prominent supporters of it, who also conveniently stand to make the most isk off high sec getting taxed.

AS fa as an isk sink goes, someone in another thread suggested that the it might be in the spirit of the game if there was a way to bypass it that required a great deal of work (high level skills, a standing of 9 or higher, etc). Personally I support this idea, as it makes it more profitable to players willing ot put the time in, and cuts into big alliances ability to dictate price.



I like that ideal just like refining taxs in stations. It do's kind of fit though I think few will support it.

I would though. It matters not ether way for me I will make good isk still.

It's just with a way around the taxs we can all keep Tech 2 prices down.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#106 - 2011-12-10 14:39:00 UTC
Hundo Kay wrote:

Yes, your system sucks when you HAVE to fly around for an hour a day to maintain it, versus a well setup one that I have to fly around once a week for an hour to maintain.

In fact you need to log in at least once a day, because a decent ECU setup will yield more then the 1M P0 your spaceport will hold.

And how you get from me pointing out you seem to know very little about PI and showing your system is not extremely productive, to me not wanting to put effort into anything just continues to make you look stupid.


Because I don't mind working hard for my bottom line. You do realize you're talking to one of those people that will slow boat all the way from 4C-B7X to to the middle of Great Wildlands for 20m isk, right?

Hundo Kay wrote:

A PI system relying on P0 Strip Mining planets and P0 to P1 factory planets is a bad idea. You have continued to prove that for us with your attempt to argue for it. But by all means if you want to spend your time ineffiecently hauling P0 products all over your system then go for it. Just don't try to argue its a good idea. Its not.


Higher yield is higher yield. Do you have to work for it? Yes. All you've proven is that you only want to deal with PI a few times a week and are willing to sacrifice output for convenience.

Sure, you can recycle junk and get mins, but you get higher output stripping an entire system of any and all asteroids every day ( or better, every two hours.)

Then again, why am I trying to explain this to you? You obviously are one of those 'least work' types, so go back to ratting and wait for your isk to be mailed to you.
Z1gy
Vindicator Corporation
#107 - 2011-12-10 15:18:17 UTC
did CCP change the tax again? coz today the p2 stuff taxes seem cheaper
Hundo Kay
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2011-12-10 21:02:22 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Hundo Kay wrote:

Yes, your system sucks when you HAVE to fly around for an hour a day to maintain it, versus a well setup one that I have to fly around once a week for an hour to maintain.

In fact you need to log in at least once a day, because a decent ECU setup will yield more then the 1M P0 your spaceport will hold.

And how you get from me pointing out you seem to know very little about PI and showing your system is not extremely productive, to me not wanting to put effort into anything just continues to make you look stupid.


Because I don't mind working hard for my bottom line. You do realize you're talking to one of those people that will slow boat all the way from 4C-B7X to to the middle of Great Wildlands for 20m isk, right?

Hundo Kay wrote:

A PI system relying on P0 Strip Mining planets and P0 to P1 factory planets is a bad idea. You have continued to prove that for us with your attempt to argue for it. But by all means if you want to spend your time ineffiecently hauling P0 products all over your system then go for it. Just don't try to argue its a good idea. Its not.


Higher yield is higher yield. Do you have to work for it? Yes. All you've proven is that you only want to deal with PI a few times a week and are willing to sacrifice output for convenience.

Sure, you can recycle junk and get mins, but you get higher output stripping an entire system of any and all asteroids every day ( or better, every two hours.)

Then again, why am I trying to explain this to you? You obviously are one of those 'least work' types, so go back to ratting and wait for your isk to be mailed to you.


Its your subscription, do what you want.

And yes I prefer an Isk generation system that makes 90% of the isk at 1/10th the effort.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2011-12-10 21:40:50 UTC
to much isk in eve atm. just another way to funnel it out.

I have more space likes than you. 
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-12-10 22:08:48 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Hundo, how much effort you think any one person is putting in? OMG once a day I have to get in my ship and fly once around the system I live in. Oh, the HORROR. I might have to UNDOCK. You might throw a lot of **** in my face, Hundo, but you have '4-4' written across you large. Looks to me like a lot less effort than, say, mining or running missions or hot dropping caps on someone.

So, what do you do when someone figures that your system is a nice system to camp in a cloaked ship, just waiting for you to head out on your daily PI run?

I don't have to undock to collect it more than once a week or every 2 weeks, and I just have to reset the extractors every 2 days or so. This means I can wait a lot longer for someone to give me a 30 minute window than you can, and I suspect that at some point you'll lose profit because of this.

But hey, your game, you do this how you like it. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2011-12-10 22:12:01 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Fastjack, I know goons hold more solar systems with planets then anyone else. as far as manpower or wealth,well, from an interesting discussion I had a bit ago, the directorate is doing it wrong.

On item 4) I know you're buying in empire. I am, after all, selling it to you and shipping it to you on occasion. However, if you did build your own, then, yes, you would insulate yourselves quite easily.


You are hilarious. Yes, if goonswarm could somehow turn all of our PVPers into Industrialists, we could cause major disruptions to the market. Unfortunately alliances full of industrialists don't hold space in the first place, they rent it from PVPers. Nullsec is ruled by warlords, not merchant princes.





As for "bad for the game?" I don't see it. T2 and T3 are supposed to be special. Players in general have gotten so rich, and production costs so low, that T2 everything is the required minimum standard for many basic PVP and even PVE activities. Incursion runners make fun of people who show up without faction mods and T2 rigs because "bad fits" hurt the group's isk/hour. Okay, maybe incursion runners are jerks, but in many corps/alliances showing up to PVP with a deviation from the required fit as slight as single T2 module replaced by a T1 version will deny you reimbursement for your losses. Some particularly jerksome corps/alliances will send you home or blow you up if they see you have shown up for a CTA in a T1 hull. That is insane.

If you ask me, making T2 a little less ubiquitous would be good for the game.
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2011-12-12 22:07:17 UTC
Goons trolling goons
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2011-12-16 11:01:43 UTC
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:
Goons trolling goons



There are no trolls in goonswarm.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#114 - 2011-12-16 16:27:34 UTC
PI was never meant to be insulated from the PVP mechanics of the game. Nullsec alliances have a much higher planet/pilot ratio than empire, and the quality of the planets is better. Highsec is overpopulated with pilots and has lower quality planets. There's also alot more nullsec than there is hisec. Nullsec players SHOULD make a killing off PI. However, I'll also point out that a large proportion of nullsec players either aren't interested in PI at all, or get bored with it in two weeks.

Some first-hand PI tips