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Missions - What would you do about them?

Author
Citizen Smif
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-16 15:18:51 UTC
Hello, this thread is based on the premis that missions are incredibly boring, monotomous and just a generally empty task. So if you don't agree feel free to agitate or troll away, you won't harvest my tears Oops

Anyway I digress.. Missions are very boring. Its just a horribly slow process of drifting across the room to the next acceleration gate and clicking maybe 2 different modules. It's not at all a rewarding form of PvE and probably one of the most underdeveloped of any MMO I've played. The problem is: for a lot of people lvl 4 missions are their entire income so messing around with them is something that CCP seems to be incredibly hesitant to do. With this in mind what would you do to make them more rewarding gameplay? Or do you actually like missions the way they are, if so why?

The problems imo:

Boring gameplay
No risk
Repetitive and grindy

The pros:

Reasonably good income
Safe
Low SP entry point

Feel free to add to that if you want..

My idea is to perhaps make missions more unique by lowering the amount of ships, buffing them and giving them better AI (like a weaker sleeper AI) and have them more as short encounters than long-winded missions. I find incursions fairly enjoyable because they're very short and (would be) tough in a weaker fleet.. but like most things they are very easy with a decent FC, logi and shiny ships. Not to mention the teamplay is much more satisfying than solo grind.

Anyway, I would nerf bounties slightly (-10/15% perhaps) and increase the likelihood of getting worthwhile loot: this will give the missions a randomness to them. Also perhaps create a few worthwhile storylines or an easier task would just be to create regional/racial themes to missions (this already exists to a point but is underdeveloped.) And most of all create far more missions! It's appalling how few missions there are in almost 10 years of the game being out.. but i suppose with missions in their current state there isn't much incentive to do so.

Thoughts?
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-12-16 15:25:10 UTC
Let the agent give mission from the complete pool.
Make missions more unpredictable.
Create more missions.
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-12-16 15:28:04 UTC
making an agent take from the entire pool would be good for mixing it up.

my current agent is freaking awesome, but thats because she literally only gives me about 8 different missions, including WC, AE, recon and a few other awesome ones.

part of me would like to see more missions offered. part of me likes that she gives me the most awesome selection of missiony goodness
stoicfaux
#4 - 2011-12-16 15:49:50 UTC
Randomly generated missions. The main reason missions are "easy" is because they're predictable. If every mission had the possibility of a 'Stop the Thief' type ambush (suddenly get hot-dropped by a swarm of webbing/scramming frigates,) you would see more people trading gank for actual tank, thus lowering DPS, thus lowering the speed at which missions are run.

Sleeper AI, fewer ships, and encouraging PvP style fits are always peachy ideas.

Fewer ships would also mean less bounties, less loot and less salvage. Faster missions would probably mean less LP gains. This would reduce the effects of the level 4 isk/mineral/salvage faucets, and could have an amusingly drastic effect on the economy. It also might encourage more cooperation between industrialists, miners, and combat pilots.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Ayianapa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-12-16 23:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayianapa
I would completely scrap all current missions and rewrite the lot from a PvP fit point of view with new Ai.

this won't happen as people have become incredibly accepting of CCP barely working on their game and lauding an expansion that has in their own words a few weeks work in it.
Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2011-12-17 05:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
Speaking of the lower end (level 1-4) missions, I would make a mechanic that scales enemy strength according to the number or size of a fleet (go by total mass maybe?). You could perhaps do away with the mission level system entirely that way.

This is to make those missions a FLEET operation. But still be able to be solo'd, which I believe is important especially to new players not 'in the know' or with people to help them out. All types of missions would work this way, so for example a Distribution mission being run solo would have a smaller cargo size and likely weak or no rats as resistence during the mission- but a fleet might have a cargo requiring more than one ship to move, possibly a gauntlet to run in deadspace with stronger NPC's if you enter as a fleet or in larger ship classes.

Level 5 missions and Incursions (essentially level 5+ missions) already favor or require fleets, dedicated roles, and high end fittings meaning that new players aren't really within their scope.

Low SP toons are stuck with boring, way too easy or way too hard solo missions. Where max tank and DPS is all that matters, tactics rarely matter beyond orbit at optimal, EW is rarely better than another DPS mod to clear NPCs, and fitting to kill specific NPCs means zero challenge, zero 'practice' for PvP, and zero respect from most other career paths in Eve. Yes, you can take a fleet into missions, but it's simply not worth it for low end missions- they are too easy to get useful gang practice, and dont pay out enough to make it worth it to form up fleets, run an op-- for a mission a solo ship will finish in 10 minutes anyway....

The often strong difference between fitting requirements for PvE and PvP means new players are forced to choose between them for some time- usually ending up with PvE which they at least have a chance of survival with. But it breeds care bears.
I know it's heresy to say here- but bear with me- I have to give credit to WoW for their Dungeon Finder tool (I haven't played in years but did when that feature was introduced) for making the MM part of MMO very easy to access on short notice, and with little commitment beyond that one instance.

I would tie the Fleet Finder into mission running, make it safe to form fleets (no remote rep scams by losers picking on newbies for jollies) with strangers, and make it easy to team people up together on a more or less equal footing. Not the arena combat Eve players are so loathe to speak of (and I agree), but somewhere that T1 gear looted from missions (whatever meta level) is as viable as fittings that cost 200x the cost of the hull. There newbs could learn how to PvP before being tossed into low sec with a grip of countdown timers, aggression rules, remember not to warp out to gates, etc etc etc...
I know there is a point of pride in hanging in there for that famously steep Eve learning curve-- but then don't complain that people are so hesitant to even dip a toe into low or null sec. For me, missions should all give a chance for solid training for PvP. The current structure may do that for the highest end of missioning, but you really need to grab players early on or they (like me) end up spending WAY too long care bearing.

In the end, I wouldn't change the PvP (so put the flamethrower down) and simply make low end missions more like the high end ones. Only always leave a way to solo- for newbs, shy folk, casual players, and people only doing it for standings or something.....always though, with a focus on preparation for that open world of PvP.

Edit- forgive the length, folks...

one more idea- missions that you only provide support in.

For example a combat mission where you are supposed to run EW or logi (probably at the T1 level) and not be a solitary warship dispatched to wipe out entire fleets single handed.
Interesting elements of the game like EW and logi tend to go unused in lower end missions, and useless in PvP until you are at a high level.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#7 - 2011-12-18 07:37:56 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
The problem is: for a lot of people lvl 4 missions are their entire income so messing around with them is something that CCP seems to be incredibly hesitant to do.


To solve the problem of L4 missions being many people's sole income source, those people should explore alternatives. Making missions more interesting is not going to stop people wasting time on missions.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#8 - 2011-12-18 07:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: mingetek
make anti faction missiosn available to anyone whom wants them and. remove sec increase from all misisons.

also pooling missiosn is bad..

if missiosn are pooled for everyone to pick from you are gonna get assholes like me wh get 10 alts... get 10 enemies abound.. and farms them all week..

having a pool of missions for everyone to pick and shoose from is bad.
..
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#9 - 2011-12-18 08:11:29 UTC
More missions would definitively help in the short term.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#10 - 2011-12-18 09:35:29 UTC
I would not change them to much becouse low sp skill pilots and new players need this to both build up some isk in EVE and as something to fall back on.

I how ever would make wider broad sweaping changes to NPC's and remove loot drops and replace them with 1 run bpc's.

I would not change rouge drones or Drone goo. If a person likes to mine at the end of a Mega Pulse Lazer reather then a Mining Lazer or striper I realy dont have a problem with that.

I both like and dislike the ideal of pulling from the hole mission database. It's going to make it much harder on the new players trying to just learn there own races ships and it's going to cut the isk making of older players that have worked hard to find good mission giving NPC's.

I would fully like to see all missions revamped and more new missions like Dread Pirate Scarlet added to the game.

A even better option is to have 1 NPC agent offer you 3 or more missions to pick from every time once you hit 8+ standing with that agent.

But my ideals have never been very popular.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#11 - 2011-12-18 12:57:31 UTC
Sellendis
The Ares project
#12 - 2011-12-18 14:49:59 UTC
mingetek wrote:
make anti faction missiosn available to anyone whom wants them and. remove sec increase from all misisons.

also pooling missiosn is bad..

if missiosn are pooled for everyone to pick from you are gonna get assholes like me wh get 10 alts... get 10 enemies abound.. and farms them all week..

having a pool of missions for everyone to pick and shoose from is bad.


Well, so what?
If you take E-Abound or WC multiple times, the payoff value and bounty's drop, after some time you would get more from Duo of Death. That is one way to prevent same mission farming that could be implemented.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#13 - 2011-12-18 19:51:08 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
My idea is to perhaps make missions more unique by lowering the amount of ships, buffing them and giving them better AI (like a weaker sleeper AI) and have them more as short encounters than long-winded missions.


Replacing cannon fodder with actual challenge - definitely seconded.

I'd make NPC ships work a bit more like player ships, too (e.g. projectile-toting NPC ships may swap out ammo for something the players ship is vulnerable to). Make EWAR (other than target painters) useful in missions. Maybe even add the necessity to point some (high-bounty or equipped with good modules) NPC ships before they warp off.

Baraka Saibot
Wobbling Frog Inc
#14 - 2011-12-18 20:46:07 UTC
I find this amazing that the missions haven't gotten any attention... since, forever. And it has since the dawn of time, been horrible.

And it's probably the thing most players in EVE pass their time with.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#15 - 2011-12-18 22:27:12 UTC
I would attempt to completely redo and improve missions and faction war together. Make Empire Space High and Low, and NPC Nullsec really come alive in terms of the NPC factions and the struggles and wars between them. Integrate players into this story so your not just repetitively grinding mission LPs and ISK your forwarding the interests of the Corporations and Factions your running missions with and impacting the the game world as a whole. ..and yes putting yourself in conflict with other players aligned with opposing NPC factions/corps.

Also your standings to NPC Corps and Factions should not be trivial, and should have a real impact on your interactions with NPCs.

Ideas of making NPC AI better and blurring the line between optimized PvE and PvP fits are good too.

And Bigger ship shouldn't always be the best ship to use.
Mr Jack Black
Blue Moon Ventures
#16 - 2011-12-21 16:21:53 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
Let the agent give mission from the complete pool.
Make missions more unpredictable.
Create more missions.



This pretty much sums it up. More missions would be fan.freagn.tastic. I like running missions, they are my main source of income and all MMO's work this way. Grind missions to obtain upgrades! Increasing difficulty would almost require increasing payout of the mission, or pilots wont "grind" them. Adding more can mean adding more difficulty, dont mess with the current ones. New missions mean more happy players which means more low and hi sec pilots in the grand scheme.

1. More missions
2. More missions
3. More missions

Im Mr Jack Black and I endorse this message.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-12-22 16:44:13 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
Hello, this thread is based on the premis that missions are incredibly boring, monotomous and just a generally empty task. So if you don't agree feel free to agitate or troll away, you won't harvest my tears Oops

Anyway I digress.. Missions are very boring. Its just a horribly slow process of drifting across the room to the next acceleration gate and clicking maybe 2 different modules. It's not at all a rewarding form of PvE and probably one of the most underdeveloped of any MMO I've played. The problem is: for a lot of people lvl 4 missions are their entire income so messing around with them is something that CCP seems to be incredibly hesitant to do. With this in mind what would you do to make them more rewarding gameplay? Or do you actually like missions the way they are, if so why?

The problems imo:

Boring gameplay
No risk
Repetitive and grindy

The pros:

Reasonably good income
Safe
Low SP entry point

Feel free to add to that if you want..

My idea is to perhaps make missions more unique by lowering the amount of ships, buffing them and giving them better AI (like a weaker sleeper AI) and have them more as short encounters than long-winded missions. I find incursions fairly enjoyable because they're very short and (would be) tough in a weaker fleet.. but like most things they are very easy with a decent FC, logi and shiny ships. Not to mention the teamplay is much more satisfying than solo grind.

Anyway, I would nerf bounties slightly (-10/15% perhaps) and increase the likelihood of getting worthwhile loot: this will give the missions a randomness to them. Also perhaps create a few worthwhile storylines or an easier task would just be to create regional/racial themes to missions (this already exists to a point but is underdeveloped.) And most of all create far more missions! It's appalling how few missions there are in almost 10 years of the game being out.. but i suppose with missions in their current state there isn't much incentive to do so.

Thoughts?



This thread should have been posted in 'Features and Ideas' sub forum channel. After working out the ideas so there isn't any game breakers or exploits, then post it in the 'Assembly Hall' sub forum channel where other players can show support if they like it. Actually, there's probably a few threads like that already.

CCP already has a lot on their plate and before changing content that already works just fine, they need to fix a lot of other things first. Since missions are so boring for you, then don't do them. Plain and simple. Obviously it's too much trouble for you to think outside the box and make it fun and exciting. Guess it never occurred to you to mix things up a bit.

If you want a challenge, try doing high lv missions in a small ship.

If you want risk, go do missions in low sec systems.

If you want to incorporate PvP aspect with PvE mission, go do Factional Warfare.

If you want to do PvE Fleet action, go do level 5 missions or Sansha Incursions.

If you want advanced NPC AI, go jump into some worm-holes.


No to changing the current bounty.

No to changing the agents current mission pool.

No to decreasing the current amount of npc's.

Actually, pretty much no, nO, NO to almost everything.



There are a few items I would agree with though, such as adding some new missions and a couple of new agent divisions. One Division that gives a random mix of all mission types and another Division that only gives Anti-Faction missions..Other than that, if you want regional/racial themes, go try Cosmos missions.


Velarra
#18 - 2011-12-22 18:25:32 UTC
Acceleration gates that *require* modules: Warp Scrambler or Warp Distuptor & Stasis Web.
NPC's who will pod-kill, and deal substationally more serious DPS, - yet not so much that 1 player can not complete them.
Incursion/Sleeper AI-Lite.
Soloable small numbers of npc.

Similiar rewards as per current L1-5 missions.

NPC Tears in local.
Emperor Salazar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-12-22 18:28:35 UTC
Lvl 4 missions that have a frigate/cruiser limitation (no T3).
Velarra
#20 - 2011-12-22 19:08:24 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Lvl 4 missions that have a frigate/cruiser limitation (no T3).


Try running L4's in NPC 0.0 for environment forced size limits. The T3? Pop them on Gates & undock.It's at worst a shame too many of the hard-to-probe are mostly T2/meta4 fit.

The unfortunate issue is that pvp fit ships can't casually fly pve missions, while conversely pve ships are great fun to hunt down in pvp fit ships.

There's something to be said for casual single player flyable missions. Their only problem is that they teach/require PVE fits that are incompatible with the rest of eve's PVP fittings & related activities.
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