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CCP Mankiller: About PBR

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Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#1 - 2014-11-22 18:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
According to last devblog by CCP Seagull, there will be coming a new way of rendering that will use shaders more realistically, so far the gif seen looks really shiny, but I went to SISI just to witness it for myself, logged in with my carebearing toons, and found this:


http://i.imgur.com/775B2yt.jpg


On the left monitor you can see TQ, on the center you can see SISI, on the right monitor you can see a sidemount tech diver on a mexican cenote, totally irrelevant.


I've been expecting the upcoming devblog but I haven't seen it so far so here i go:

Why does it looks like duck diarrhea?

With the old rendering you can see this chromatic shader rainbow style typical of Sansha ships and all the hues of the green-ish hull, with the new rendering, well, it indeed shines more, but its... dull, I agree that reflecting the enviromental light is a step forward, but don't disregard the original feel of the ships...

I also took a closer look to the ships on the gif, the Apoc looks really nice, relly really nice, also does the Orcale, then I went to see my other favourite ships, the Paladin for example, the red ain't red anymore, looks dull again, damped, yeah I know that the surface is different, its matte, its not supposed to reflect the light in the same fashion than the golden polished surfaces but still... paladin aint golden and red anymore :c it looks shinny gold and damped red.

Same happens with Gallente ships, I took a closer look at the Brutix, at first glance it looks neater, but when comparing them:

http://i.imgur.com/5QfjrNL.jpg

Same thing happens, shinny parts look good, but matte parts look too damped.


So, what I'm saying about the Nightmare is not the same than the other, about the nightmare I insist that it kinda lost its essence, that rainbow chromatic shader its almost gone, and it looks too much dull green.

About the Paladin and Brutix, what I'm saying is that the matte colours look too dull.


On the other hand I must say that I can appreciate much more the volume created by parallax, which is really nice.

Because tities .
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2 - 2014-11-22 21:54:06 UTC
I've been checking in regularly to see how this work is going. I wouldn't judge too harshly yet, as I'm seeing graphical changes and adjustments being made frequently to these ships. I believe they are still in the process of fine tuning everything with the new system in place.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#3 - 2014-11-22 22:07:05 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I've been checking in regularly to see how this work is going. I wouldn't judge too harshly yet, as I'm seeing graphical changes and adjustments being made frequently to these ships. I believe they are still in the process of fine tuning everything with the new system in place.


i really hope so because sansha ships look like duck turd and the paladin was so disappointing Evil

Because tities .
Leonard Nimoy II
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-11-22 22:10:14 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I've been checking in regularly to see how this work is going. I wouldn't judge too harshly yet, as I'm seeing graphical changes and adjustments being made frequently to these ships. I believe they are still in the process of fine tuning everything with the new system in place.


i really hope so because sansha ships look like duck turd and the paladin was so disappointing Evil


Yer.....along with many of the gallente ships, and angel cartel.....but I would suspect this is not the final product (or at least hope so).
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#5 - 2014-11-23 03:48:41 UTC
If this "improvement" was to get unleashed onto TQ I'm pretty sure there would be a riot.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#6 - 2014-11-23 10:22:31 UTC
This gimmicky "oil spill" isn't a realistic thing it seems, and with realistic lightning, it's just gone. P

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2014-11-23 11:44:51 UTC
i just want the ware and tear back onto the widow >.>

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#8 - 2014-11-23 16:57:30 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I've been checking in regularly to see how this work is going. I wouldn't judge too harshly yet, as I'm seeing graphical changes and adjustments being made frequently to these ships. I believe they are still in the process of fine tuning everything with the new system in place.


i really hope so because sansha ships look like duck turd and the paladin was so disappointing Evil

I'm not that unhappy with the Paladin at the moment, probably because the red area's of that ship have such a distinct texture. That same dark red does not work quite as well on say the Pilgrim or the Crusader where those area's are smooth.

I've considered putting up some comparisons in my Ranger 1 Presents channel on YouTube, but every time I log on and start getting footage I realize things have changed yet again and my video would likely be outdated before I could get it uploaded and released. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#9 - 2014-11-23 17:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm not that unhappy with the Paladin at the moment, probably because the red area's of that ship have such a distinct texture. That same dark red does not work quite as well on say the Pilgrim or the Crusader where those area's are smooth.

One thing is reflecting the environmental light, which obviously the polished surfaces should do more, but another thing is dampening the colour of matte surfaces.

In other words: GIMME MY REDDDDDDDDDDDDD !!


Ranger 1 wrote:
I've considered putting up some comparisons in my Ranger 1 Presents channel on YouTube, but every time I log on and start getting footage I realize things have changed yet again and my video would likely be outdated before I could get it uploaded and released. Smile



I'm looking forward for the final version and your video :)

Because tities .
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#10 - 2014-11-24 10:51:41 UTC
I like new rendering so much I've purchased Nightmare on TQ immediately after checking Sisi - just to look at it sometimes.
(check the ship outside of station - she is beautiful)

p. s. Why there is no diver on second pic? What happened? Is he ok?
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#11 - 2014-11-24 20:49:19 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
I like new rendering so much I've purchased Nightmare on TQ immediately after checking Sisi - just to look at it sometimes.
(check the ship outside of station - she is beautiful)

p. s. Why there is no diver on second pic? What happened? Is he ok?

I'm not sure if youre trolling or its just that you have a hell of a bad taste.

Because tities .
Gungnir Winder
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-11-25 22:28:30 UTC
I'm assuming they obviously need to tweak materials shineness (since ships like deimos and stuff look like made out of glass).

But honestly I like ships being more opaque and less shiny. They look more realistic.

What I think it's causing ships to look weird is that the base textures were not made for this lightning rendering, thus looking washed out.

I strongly believe that if they tweak base textures and some shineness setting, eye candy level will be over 9000

My Youtube channel  Gungnir Winder
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#13 - 2014-11-27 17:09:53 UTC
Gungnir Winder wrote:
What I think it's causing ships to look weird is that the base textures were not made for this lightning rendering, thus looking washed out.

I thought about that too, i saw that today they've released the Confessor on SISI so i updated it with the hope of having also updated the textures or tweaked whatever but they have not :c

Because tities .
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#14 - 2014-12-01 15:45:09 UTC
Petra Hakaari wrote:
I'm not sure if youre trolling or its just that you have a hell of a bad taste.

Apparently devs have published half-finished (beautiful) variant before, finished color variant (available now) made the ship look like a turd with pikes =(

Well, this is yet another good lesson to never trust devs.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#15 - 2014-12-01 15:48:05 UTC
Most importantly:
Tarpedo wrote:
p. s. Why there is no diver on second pic? What happened? Is he ok?

Second most important, at least they finally made my nighthawk look like it hadn't been sitting in a desert for 100 years.

Though when I started seeing all those used/dirty looking ships I had another thought, what if the ship went through levels of wear after certain set amount of use periods, like it looks a little worn after X months of being fitted and/or used in combat for X number of hours. Then the wear gets worse at the next level etc, and maybe you could send it through the repair shop to clean the windows and rebuff the paint? (and it would give us another ISK sink)
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#16 - 2014-12-01 19:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
the biggest issues I have with the PBJ (sorry hungry), ahem... PBR is that the lighting is too bright on the ships - and washes out or causes the white jagged lines on edges and all that mess...even in high it does it.

EVE needs to be a bit darker - and this can be seen by using the ship preview - then take any ship - look at it from the sun-lit side then look at it from the dark side - and not that the colors, lights and over all everything look better on the dark side of the ship - it's just richer and more realistic, the sun-lit side is washed out, too shiny and detail is lost due to the glare as well as all the optical illusion or shapes being lost.

Also the reds have gone brown again... and much of the grays (grey to you UK'ers) are too light etc... but these are just hue and saturation issues that can be addressed, the real issue I think is the sun-lit to darkness needs a better and less drastic contrast between them, and the sweet spot is less light and bright so that things looks like the enormous space ships they are, and well as long as you are in there - sharp details in dark lighting over fuzzy details in bright lighting wins every time...

Also for god's sake flatten out the colors on the Blackbird hulls and Moa hulls - the shine on them is way too much given the number of sides... it's multi-facet side glare overload...Shocked
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#17 - 2014-12-05 07:46:44 UTC
Well, 4 days left and ships still looking like pure liquid duck crap.


I foresee drama...

Because tities .
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#18 - 2014-12-05 08:44:35 UTC
I do wish CCP would respond to one of these PBR threads (or the graphics feedback thread) to at least give some indication that they recognize just how much negative feedback PBR on sisi has received so far.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#19 - 2014-12-05 10:04:42 UTC
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
I do wish CCP would respond to one of these PBR threads (or the graphics feedback thread) to at least give some indication that they recognize just how much negative feedback PBR on sisi has received so far.

Next thing you will know is that fozzie will post a devblog saying how happy and how wonderful the feedback has been, just as he did on the hyperion release that killed deep wormhole activity, killing small corps, which mine by that time was among...

Because tities .
CCP Huskarl
C C P
C C P Alliance
#20 - 2014-12-05 12:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Hey pilots

I just want to give you a heads up on the issues related to the PBR (physically based rendering) conversion. I think there is no doubt that PBR gives us a much better and more realistic overall lighting in EVE. The ships feel more integrated into the scene since the reflection from the nebula has energy now and is actually lightening up the ships, the materials can look and behave very realistic as you can see with the Amarr gold for instance or the bright fresnel on some of the metals.

However there are some issues that we are fully aware of and are working hard to fix. The textures we are using were not made for PBR and it was a massive undertaking for the art team in a relatively short time to convert the textures and we will need to revisit a lot of them in the future. I´m aware of a lot of issues with some of the factions like for instance Sansha that was tweaked before we got the oil part of the PBR shader working properly. We plan to revisit all of them in the future and will look for feedback on the forums.

We are also looking into the "washed out" look and lack of sharpness as well as the dirt and scuffing on the ships looks very rough and flat. We have made some progress there and we will have to work out the best way to implement that as soon as possible.

07 Huskarl
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