Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If you're tackled next to a POS with the shield offline, and you turn the shield on, what happens?



It's barely any time and effort at all for the size of the advantage it gives.



Of course it benefits offensive fleets, but that's the point. That this change would nerf an inherently defensive tactic is not remotely an argument against it, because the point is that that tactic is unreasonably strong. The numbers point does not, IMO, reflect reality. We regularly roam with less than 10 players, and meet these tactics in systems with 50 in local.



We don't actually die to it that often, because ofc we do have scouts. The problem is that it means we just decide not to bother engaging because we know we'll get kerbstomped.




Killing the carrier isn't hard - getting in a position where you can actually attack it at all certainly is.
Firstly, people set these things up well before a gang is actually in system, they just have it ready when they need it, so the time it takes to turn and be back at the edge of the shield is not relevant. Secondly, they often simply sit next to the POS and online the shield when they need it, no need to burn anywhere at all.

To the rest of your 'points' - we're more than happy to die in a fire when roaming, and what we want are fights with home defence fleets, not ganks. If someone brings a fleet and outplays us and wipes us out, then that's good on them, they'll get a lot of Bravos. What we object to is defensive tactics that involve practically no risk on the part of the defender, and that have basically no practicable counter.

They don't assign fighters from outside the POS shield. They assign the fighters from next to tower - with the pos password dialogue open, that's exactly one tick to put the pos field up (and no - you don't have to unanchor and repackage the tower before setting it up).

We don't have any issue with taking fights with carriers on grid. We do that all the time.

There's also the wider issue, of whether Fighters should be able to track inties.

This is exactly the problem.



Given their cruiser sized EHP, interceptor speed and frigate sig this is easier said than done. It also missed the point - why should I have to fight the fighters when the ship that launched them is sitting perfectly safe next to the POS?

If the carrier was on grid and at risk, I would have no complaint about the fighters whatsoever.

As a more general note to people saying "You can counter this with X". We're well aware that the ships are not invulnerable and this tactic can be beaten, but again that's not the point. Consider a hypothetical ship that can project 1500 dps out to 40km with Talos tracking and a HACs speed and tank. Clearly monstrously OP and the fact that they can still be killed would not be a valid argument against nerfing it - the same applies here.

+1 Nors

something MUST be done to stop this crap

the speed at which assigned fighter kill subcaps without ANY risk is INSANE!

if I check the KB of the last time we got 'fighter asigned raped' nearly all the top DPS on ALL ships that died came from the assigned fighters...

The fight lasted less then 3 minutes...

They didn't even need to use those fighters! we would have lost nontheless yet it would at lest have been a decent scrap, one which I'd have been perfectly fine in losing...

It just felt so OP and wrong and IMHO something has to be done to stop this lamo risk-avoiding Cheese

This

CCP devs have said time and time again that the main balancing point in EVE should be risk vs reward. The problem here isn't the carriers/supers its the 'POS tanking'. It's a mechanic which is being used in a way that negates risk without negating reward.

Yeah they do have Cruiser sized EHP, lets not forget that fighters are 5k m3 each. A carrier (thanny excluded IIRC) can only carry 1.5 flights of fighters. But for a carrier to be able to do what you're saing, they're fitting for exactly that purpose. Not over powered, you're being outsmarted.

Your arguement is flawed and here's why:

Person A knows you come into that system to farm this person/corp/alliance/whatever for kills.
They want to kill you so they use something shiny (X ship for this purpose)
Then put their carrier next to a pos then assists fighters to X ship (as you said above)
Trap is set.
You being foolish, fell for this hook line and sinker, multiple times apparently and dare I say, never thought of using standard ewar (webs, points, tracking disruption, target painting) on drone
You and your buddies got killed

This happens more than once and rather than coming up with something effective you decided to come here and sook.

Claiming this trap is Over-powered, you can't beat something, you're too unoriginal to realise you were being baited into a trap consistently, when you likely already had ALL the best ways to counter this.

So back to my point last post and the post before, KILL THE FIGHTERS. Web and Scram them. They will die.

This is apparently a concept that's foreign to you. Drones can be targetted and killed, fighters with their cruiser sized EHP die pretty damn easily from a little focussed fire. An unmanned pos can destroy fighters, I know, I've lost some recently.

fighters don't give kill mails so the actual record of the fight will more than likely be for the team with fighters and the other 4 with 1000 dps that can hit frigs will destroy you.

Is that scrams stop there MWD or there warping off?

It seems to me like a lot of people are talking out of their asses in this thread. A lot of people obviously haven't faced what we're talking about here recently or they say "lol just blob it". While blobbing is certainly effective, it still doesn't change the fact that 2 interceptors shouldn't be able to wreck a small gang.

Fighters from a typical ratting carrier, while dangerous with the right mods, can be dealt with and we do it all the time and take down groups of carriers in the process. Fighters from a purpose built super carrier get to the point that they can alpha down most roaming ships and chase down interceptors easily. There are systems that are becoming known because they're cyno jammed, bubbled to hell, and have a Revenant in that dead end system that's fit something like this. They use it for ratting support, then just ship to an interceptor and use it for pvp support if someone comes in system.

Might I call your attention to the system of 4DH-ST? Feel free to take your blob there. Check out 24I-FE while you're on that list.

The problem here isn't that super carriers can be fit to blast subcaps to great effect, it's that you aren't really risking it when you do so. If they warp that Revenant in and start tearing apart my gang with it, GG, that's what a 100+ billion isk investment gets you in my opinion. Do that from the safety of a POS in a cyno jammed and heavily bubbled system, then it's basically risk free and reminiscent of the kind of area denial AoE doomsdays created. Small gangs just don't go into those systems anymore.

Here's a video of someone assigning fighters specifically to make fun of how broken it is.

If you want to bring that kind of firepower to bear, you need to put your ship on grid to do it. The changes to drone mods affecting fighters is what made this an unbalanced problem. There are almost always unintended consequences when making tweaks and this is one of them. It needs to be adjusted accordingly.

So here's a few things you missed.

1) when a carrier enters pos shields it loses connection with its drones, if the fighters/bombers are in warp the carrier will lose connection and the drones will need to be scanned down, super annoying, no punn intended.

2) and more importantly, the stats of the fighters/bombers are based off the ship assisted to, not the carrier. Therefore your friends will need their own damage mods and fighters/bombers skills trained. So while the nyx or other carrier can do the quoted 1200dps per 5 drones the assistees dont.

Also, try flying caps before you suggest changes, you'll find reality differs from EFT.

Neither of which is true - though the first one is a bit more complicated as sometimes they won't return but generally they will warp to the edge of the FF and slowboat back to the carrier when the cause of loss of drone functionality is a forcefield it doesn't work the same as other loss of connection (usually).

EDIT: There is a skill the assignee needs trained but assigned fighters still inherit the stat bonuses from mods on the original carrier - fairly easy to see as they will be doing 4-5km/s when assigned to a ship with no drone mods and a pilot with only basic drone skills.

Maybe try flying caps ;)