EVE General Discussion

I think you accidentally listed wardeccers, we were discussing PVP here.

Oh I'm discussing PVP. You're deluded if you think any aspect of this game is not PVP, that's the bottom line. You think RvB are the only PVP'ers because they do it a certain way that you approve of? Go shove your subjective hyperbole up your backside and come back to reality. PVP = player vs player. That's it, that's it's only definition.

The discussion about RVB kills or what "kind" of PVP distribution there is in hisec serves no purpose whatsoever.

There is never a justification needed to shoot and destroy another player's ship. Ships can and should be destroyed by other players in every corner of EVE, with the sole exception of rookie and rookie missioning systems as outlined by CCP.

Labeling nonconsentual hisec PVP corps as "not real PVP" or anything of the sort is ignoring the obvious fact that what they do is extremely profitable, and that you keep talking about it and talking about it and talking about it because these kills disproportionately dominate the EVE philosophical mindshare.

Psssst! Resarch FTW.....


Ok, /discussion lol

How quickly threads like this devolve into petty narcissism. Amusing

You can play EvE any way you like. Just don't be mad when someone else plays it their way.
If you don't like something that happened to you, then by all means, do something differently! And tbh, demanding that ccp or anyone else fix it for you (see narcissism) without TRYING everything else is just lazy.

If and when you have tried everything to overcome a challenge, I warrant that you now have a legitimate concern to raise to the community regarding a rebalance. You must also listen to what others offer for suggestions, and TRY them out.

As for bumping, it does seem to be a difficult mechanic to counter. But difficult =/= impossible. And if you think about it, it creates opportunities that would not exist without it. The beauty of known mechanics is that everyone has an equal opportunity to use it their way. Be creative! EvE rewards innovation.

Finally, a large fleet should invariably have the advantage over a single entity. It just makes sense...

EVE not being safe anywhere is vital to the game. If you don't agree with that, then we are at a philosophical impasse and no rational discussion can result from it.

Also, why not remove CONCORD and keep AFK ratting in null intact?

The hypocrisy of my question should at least cause you to question why you find bluesec offensive, but argue for a conflict-free hisec in the same breath.

If that were true Eve would have already collapsed. Sov Null is super safe. People feel comfortable AFK carrier ratting in Dekklein. Highsec is safe....L4 mission runners are barely ever bothered. Station traders and manufacturers are completely safe. Scammers are completely safe.

I mean your sentiment is nice...but nowhere in the game is any effort made to ensure a fundamental lack of safety.

So, to wit, there is essentially complete safety in a whole lot of places, even in places where isk is being made, and the game survives. So you thesis seems to be false, in general.

What an argument. Then it should be fine if we remove all PVP in the game, right?

No. People go to low/null/wh specifically to look for PvP. Removing that would destroy the game.

Here is the crux, Eve is not like World of Tanks. In World of Tanks you make money by blowing people up. The more you blow up, the richer you get, and the more bling you can buy. This let's you blow more people up. That is the game.

Eve is different. In Eve you make money by engaging with NPCs, not by blowing people up. That money lets you buy more stuff. This stuff can be used to blow people up, or it can be used to make engaging with the NPCs easier. The point is that blowing people up doesn't make you money....it's not how you accumulate wealth. If anything, it's a wealth sink. So highsec, where the main money making activities take place, isn't about blowing other people up, it's about engaging with NPCs to create wealth. Everywhere else is the opposite. That's why ships exploding isn't critical to highsec, but it is critical to other parts of space.

Edit - now personally I don't support taking suicide ganking out of highsec. I think it can serve an important role in making people accountable for how much they bling their ships...and force them to fit properly for decent tank. It makes highsec more fun and interesting. I also think the CODE craziness/bumping fest in Uedama is out of control and should be dealt with.

1. An argument is not proof. How would removing/reducing non-consensual PvP in highsec "destroy" the game? What would change? Present an actual parade of horribles. I personally think the impact would be pretty minimal. Lot's of the current PvP (wars) is essentially consensual...and those who want non-consensual PvP can still find it everywhere else in the game. What exactly would happen?

2. Your examples of wealth "creation" are examples of wealth transfer, not creation. Looting, theft, etc... these don't create wealth. They simply reallocate it from one party to the next. The only way to actually CREATE wealth in Eve is by engaging with NPCs, contra World of Tanks.