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"social" corporations

Author
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#1 - 2014-12-04 03:13:29 UTC
Note: This is primarily focused on high sec

Corporations mechanics are a mess because they are trying to address two very different issues in Eve.

1. Providing a way for people to meet/group up with friends. Chat with likeminded people and perhaps share information about the game.

2. As a risk/reward mechanic. There are a myriad of things that corps grant access to(POCOs and POSes being the big ones) in return for putting you at risk of awoxes and war decs.

This results in a lot of people making mechanically suboptimal choices because they want to be in a group with other people. Mechanically, most high sec players are best off just sitting in a one man corp. They don't use the corp benefits. Mechanics that encourage people to be antisocial are bad for Eve.

My fix is simple. Introduce "social" only corps. They would essentially operate the way most 1 man corp do. No pocos, poses, fleet hangars, etc. They simply get the corporate tag(with a label identifying it as a "social only" corp) and immunity to awoxes and war decs.

This would be highly beneficial to true corps as well. Frankly, true corporations are held back because they have to accommodate "social" people. Without them, CCP could offer higher risks and better rewards.

Now, I am betting some of you are thinking "but we can already do this through mail lists and private channels". You are right, but the fact is people simply aren't going for those. People tell newbies "join a corp", not "join a chat channel and mail list". We can speculate on the why, but it just isn't happening.
shimiku
Zircron Industries
#2 - 2014-12-04 08:25:25 UTC
i dont know i got this right
you want ppl to just get a corp tag and a channel to chat in ?
if that is every thing i dont see the point in it
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2014-12-04 09:04:54 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Now, I am betting some of you are thinking "but we can already do this through mail lists and private channels". You are right, but the fact is people simply aren't going for those. People tell newbies "join a corp", not "join a chat channel and mail list". We can speculate on the why, but it just isn't happening.

Then how about we change that attitude? How about we press for change in the player base first before we introduce things that inhibit change in the player base? After all, we play a player-driven sandbox and therefore it is our own fault if these things don't work out. There is already many active player created channels, like the Haulers Hub, RVB, Incursion community channels (I can only vouch for TDF, never have been in other community's channels), EVE Radio and so on, these channels work because there are active people in the channel and because people in there are actively trying to find new people to join or make other people aware of the channels.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2014-12-04 10:07:13 UTC
This already exists in game. They are called NPC corps.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#5 - 2014-12-04 10:18:19 UTC
That or a chat channel... Since it has all the "social" of a corp without any of the "dont touch my stuff" side of a corp...
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#6 - 2014-12-04 10:37:31 UTC
i dont see a problem with the idea i mean a tag and a Channel nothing more nothing much speaks against it
besides the crys of people that war-deck always empire corps

besides the tag it nothing what players cant do making a channel is easy enough the idea only makes the acces easy
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2014-12-04 10:53:05 UTC
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
i dont see a problem with the idea i mean a tag and a Channel nothing more nothing much speaks against it
besides the crys of people that war-deck always empire corps

besides the tag it nothing what players cant do making a channel is easy enough the idea only makes the acces easy


They are called NPC corps
Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2014-12-04 10:59:01 UTC
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
i dont see a problem with the idea i mean a tag and a Channel nothing more nothing much speaks against it
besides the crys of people that war-deck always empire corps

besides the tag it nothing what players cant do making a channel is easy enough the idea only makes the acces easy

You don't see a problem with it because you cannot see that OP's idea is literally nothing more then allowing players to create their own NPC corps. You want to be in a corp that makes you immune to wardecs and awoxing, where you just do what you want while being able to chat with others? That is the very definition of a NPC corp.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#9 - 2014-12-04 11:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Last time I checked you can't recruit into NPC corps.

I'd like to see CCPs plan for wardecs and AWOX gameplay first before committing to anything, but if they are going to nerf them I'd prefer they do it like this instead of directly.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

voetius
Grundrisse
#10 - 2014-12-04 11:17:44 UTC
As the poster above said, there are some differences between this idea and an NPC corp.

* You can't choose what NPC corp you belong to or join a different one
* You can't choose your tax rate

Aside from that, it would be possible to achieve something similar by being in one-man corps and using a shared chat channel.

I can see the point that it more easily allows a social group with controlled membership and there is nothing in the idea that would stop such a corp from doing pvp in low sec, wormholes or null sec.

It does address the usual concern that people with assets in space e.g. could use it to get the benefits of a player corp without the disadvantages of being war-decced or awoxed (awoxing can be mitigated by taking the appropriate security measures in recruitment, I fully agree).

I'm a bit ambivalent about this but I look forward to seeing more discussion :)
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#11 - 2014-12-04 11:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
CCP should just allow people to join NPC corps they like and they will RP there.

Tax rate have to stay, because of inability to wardec those corps.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#12 - 2014-12-04 14:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: TheExtruder
Game lacks an event based platform like we have in real life. True what you say that corporations try to fill that need. Thing about events is it needs entrance fee, ability to book you spot for the event few days/weeks in advance, and that the host can put up his well written ads as sort of commercial explaining what his event is about
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#13 - 2014-12-04 15:55:51 UTC
shimiku wrote:
i dont know i got this right
you want ppl to just get a corp tag and a channel to chat in ?
if that is every thing i dont see the point in it


Because that is all a lot of people want. People are generally social. We want to belong to a group and hang out with/talk to people in that group.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#14 - 2014-12-04 16:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
CCP should just allow people to join NPC corps they like and they will RP there.

Tax rate have to stay, because of inability to wardec those corps.


You can already get rid of the tax rate AND the ability to wardec by joining a 1 man corp. Joining a bigger corp is mechanically suboptimal unless you have something you want to defend or attack.

Joining a corp is for most people a bad idea because they get no mechanical benefit while incurring several risks. Players are much more likely to stay with the game if they join though, so I want the mechanics to, at a minimum, not hurt players who join corps.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-12-04 16:03:39 UTC
TheExtruder wrote:
Game lacks an event based platform like we have in real life. True what you say that corporations try to fill that need. Thing about events is it needs entrance fee, ability to book you spot for the event few days/weeks in advance, and that the host can put up his well written ads as sort of commercial explaining what his event is about

And then suddenly cancels the event and keeps the money? Or the event is a fake from the start and the money was paid for nothing? Or in reverse order: You get a spot, where you pay upon entrance. How do you enforce that as organizer? Scams - Scams Everywhere!

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#16 - 2014-12-04 16:56:28 UTC
I can't believe I am agreeing with someone in CODE. but I have to say I like this. The main reason I have not joined or started a corp is wardecs. They have become punitive in nature and are mostly done to small corps for the lols and tears.

The tax issue should be addressed. If you don't have the risks/rewards of a normal corp you should still have to pay the same tax rate as NPC corps and it should go to Concord or something like that. Otherwise this would become a huge tax dodge.

Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-12-04 17:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Sam Spock wrote:
I can't believe I am agreeing with someone in CODE. but I have to say I like this. The main reason I have not joined or started a corp is wardecs. They have become punitive in nature and are mostly done to small corps for the lols and tears.

War Decs only affect corps who don't stay unflashy, who openly meddle in the business of other corps, or who otherwise gain the attention of the rest of the community. If someone war decs you, you just pull down your towers, leave your corp into NPC and ignore them, while letting the corp continue to exist on an alt (toon on the same account if you wish), which you don't use in High sec. It's a slight inconvenience for a week, but that's it.
If you, however, for one reason or another want to play in the big pool, this "social corp" is not a solution and rather takes away consequences originating from your behavior. I can't say I like that notion. If you want to play big, you better be prepared to play the entire game. That's something, not even CODE can do as of yet, considering how often they remove their bumping alts from alt corps just because they get war dec'd.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#18 - 2014-12-04 17:13:11 UTC
yes the first time, yes every time after that. Yes every time in the future. but they have base NPC tax and no, you cant have tax on top or a corp wallet.

Groups of players (especially RL friends joining the game together) make and join corps wanting to socialise or just to give themselves a name without appreciating what they are getting themselves into. This would give them a much easier way to socialise, even let them make a name for their group, have a banner, a kill board etc etc.

A social corp can upgrade to a full corp a later time if they feel like using hangars or a POS, but its a one way change. The distinction between the two corps would probably help carebears appreciate the risks of forming a full on corp with assets (I hope anyways) without it being the only way they can 'officially' be a group with their friends.

Its a massive game experience improvement for ppl who dont want to be war decced and also gets players out of toxic NPC corp chat but essentially changes absolutely nothing from a gameplay perspective.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2014-12-04 17:15:38 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

If you, however, for one reason or another want to play in the big pool, this "social corp" is not a solution and rather takes away consequences originating from your behavior. I can't say I like that notion. If you want to play big, you better be prepared to play the entire game. That's something, not even CODE can do as of yet, considering how often they remove their bumping alts from alt corps just because they get war dec'd.


Its not playing in what your calling the 'big pool'

it literally changes nothing for gameplay and you are immune to as many consequences for your behaviour as you are in an NPC corp.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2014-12-04 17:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Its a massive game experience improvement for ppl who dont want to be war decced and also gets players out of toxic NPC corp chat but essentially changes absolutely nothing from a gameplay perspective.

One of my alts is currently in an NPC corp and I don't see any toxic NPC corp chat. Actually, I don't pay attention to the NPC corp chat at all and only to the channels I created and to other player created channels as well as CCP public channels. What are you talking about when you say "toxic NPC corp chat"?

Furthermore, your example of a corp of RL friends falls usually under the category of the unflashy, unnoticeable corps until they change their desires and ambitions.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

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