Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Theres a special kind of feeling when you shoot your artillery and miss and then wait 7-15 seconds for the next shot. All the while hoping the person youre shooting at hasnt covered the distance and scrammed you until your next shot. You get high alpha on paper, in reality its much lower. Ive only 1 shotted one guy with my muninn. It was a no tank executioner. Otherwise my volleys are below 1k. But my paper volley is around 3.2k.

That high alpha comes at a big price already, miss a shot, and that frig u were shooting at has already covered the distance and setup orbit to speed tank your guns. Why do we also need to have a rediculous PG requirement preventing any decent form of tank, prop mod or utility.

PG on artillery is fine, but dps on the other hand is terrible compared to all other forms of long range weaponry.

And no, the high alpha does not make up for that level of lacklustre dps.

IIRC its worse when you look at small and large, especially large. XL is better, but who runs arty dreads/titans anyways?

Will post more graphs when I get home

So here are some comparisons on a rifter which, as applied, has a 25% bonus to damage and a 50% bonus to fall off.

The fits

The graph

And now on a Tempest, which is double bonused for projectile damage and ROF, and is actually the "fast" projectile ship in the minmatar t1 Battleship layout

The fits

The graph

Finally, a hull that does better damage with projectiles, which it is bonused for, than with any other weapon systems. All it takes is 2 bonuses for DPS........

ummm 1400's do more dps with a RoF bonus than unbonused 425's. look at a mael.

your dps argument is with medium arties alone. Or more accurately medium rails, as 250's almost have the dps of medium neutrons. and iirc, medium beams actually exceed pulse dps.

I felt the pain of all the neuts that turned my boat offline.

Except the best long range guns on a PROJECTILE bonused hull are in fact HYBRIDS.

Oops.

That would be like putting autocannons on a Nightmare.

This is unlikely, if you cant alpha the target off with artie your not going to alpha it off between reps with rails. Especially when artie has more than twice the alpha and even large reps dont take 3 times as long as rail cycles.

The advantage of rails is clearly having better DPS, projection and application to over come reps, not circumvent them altogether.


edit-

and rail protei and tengus have a lot more to them than their guns when compared to loki's.

I thought a/c myrms were a thing of the past, especially since blasters have about the same projection with null and do more dps. In terms of cap consumption, if you dont have 1-2 cap boosters on your myrm, you're doing it wrong.

And if the others think selectable damage type is useful on a myrm, they already have it, in their drones. The only reason I can think to fit a myrm with a/c's now is if you have a silly tank fit and don't have enough grid left to fit anything else. I think it has more to do with a/c fitting than a/c's being good on an unbonused hull and being capless.

Take a look at video's of myrm pvp, just about every one i've watched in the past year shows either small or medium blasters, not a/c's.

Course, this discussion has little to do with a/c's, there is a separate thread for that. This is about artillery and being unable to fit it in a reasonable manner as compared to rails. "rails are dps blah blah" and "arty is alpha". Yes, this is well established by now. The same principle that the people who think arties don't need a PG reduction (i.e, doing lots of damage on fast ships) already exist with rails on a multitude of gal ships.

Rails have very high RoF for a long range weapon, artillery does not. So if you miss with artillery, you already have a long delay until you fire again. By that time, your opponent has already closed the distance and got under your guns. This delay is one of the big downfalls of artillery, and its perfectly balanced with high alpha (on the biggest guns 280/720/1400). But why do we have a low RoF AND insane PG requirements?

I'd like to see rails have a large CPU requirement, just to give these rail fanboys some love, like artillery has.

As a compromise, maybe the smaller teir artillery should be rebalanced, since there really is no use for it compared to rails. The alpha between 650 arty and rails is not a big difference in terms of alpha. 200-500 extra volley damage doesn't matter much, and is not going to bleed armor/structure. Unlike the people saying arty is fine, i actually fly it all the time in a pvp environment and experiment with it. The alpha is not enough to volley through medium reps in most cases. Small arty can volley through reps using 280's or a thrasher with 250's, but is very difficult to fit without multiple fitting mods.

As an example, i fought a ruppy in my 720 muninn. It probably took a good minute for me to get him to structure, and took several vollies to get there. He then warped off because i don't fit points on my muninn, because muninn has **** slot layout.

We are talking about artillery. Not autocannons.

So you are saying that AC's are fit to ships as a secondary weapon system when active tanking? Further proving why projectiles need help. Also, on an unbonused hull. And as pointed out, AC Myrms are a thing of the past pushing your comment past irrelevance.

Artillery do need more help than autocannons though. They are hardly ever seen in PVP....for good reason.