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[REBALANCE] Nestor.... again
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#41 - 2014-12-01 02:48:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
was it ever fixed?


Agree, for it's price - it doesn't make sense. It's a niche RR ship... that has a ****** niche
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#42 - 2014-12-01 03:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Abrazzar
I'd give it a role bonus to remove the targeting penalties for fitting a standard cloaking device, around 5k corp hangar and 20k-40k ship hangar.

Remove the hacking bonuses as those wouldn't fit the role as a deep space support vessel.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-12-01 03:14:32 UTC
The Nestor is a pirate faction logistics battleship. It isn't an ISK-efficient way to get the job done, and it isn't supposed to be. The only reason people consider it to have its own niche is because there aren't any other logistics battleships. If CCP released just one tech-1 logistics battleship, they would find themselves extremely useful as a heavy logistics tool that is much more mobile than a carrier while also being much cheaper. The Nestor is much more mobile than a carrier without being much cheaper.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#44 - 2014-12-01 06:03:36 UTC
What it really needs is a cap battery strapped in permanently, and a slightly better agility, so that the increased mass of a prop mod doesn't absolutely destroy the things performance.

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Making battleships worth the warp
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#45 - 2014-12-01 10:15:02 UTC
+1 for the making it a black ops logi ship

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

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Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#46 - 2014-12-01 13:31:56 UTC
People seem to still forget, or not realise, that the Nestor is a W-Space ship. Look at its mass; it's the only battleship that can enter C1 systems through the most usual WH's. Look at its Ship Maintenance Bay, meant for in-space reffiting of friendlies. Look at its RR bonuses, made for fast repairs, useful for any nomadic/invading fleet.

For a ship that flies in W-Space, the fact that capital ships can use stargates and the lack of a role bonus to the use of cynos is irrelevant. Can a carrier enter all W-Space systems so easily, and be so mobile, while requiring so many less skills? I think not.

Don't try to make it fulfill a role it's not meant for; it ends badly, no matter which ship it is. The Nestor is fine (unless you want to discuss PW, CPU, module slots...).
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#47 - 2014-12-01 14:18:56 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Nestor: Keep hearing it is a wormhole thing and in use there, and in wormholes does quite well. Need more feedback about how it is used, and see if a way to keep its allegeded W-space use intact while making it useful somehow in K-space.


My corporation(and previous iterations where relevant) thinks the Nestor is a hilarious waste of isk. In my opinion it's a worthless hull.

I appreciate the sentiment, and share it, but I keep hearing people say they are "vital" in wormhole space and would like to hear this. Thus the alleged uses and so on above.


Well basically all of it's roles and bonuses can be provided for in cheaper platforms that are also more effective.

10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints,
Dominix does the exact same thing with better bonuses and a fraction of the price tag and half the training.

4% armor resist bonus:
Admittedly nice, but with 6 low slots you either limit your dps or tank there by nullifying one or the other bonus. An Ishtar would achieve the same effect without the sig radius or speed penalty without even touching a tank bonus.

From a DPS perspective it can be loaded out to provide below average DPS and below average tank from a battleship perspective.

Then from a logi perspective is shines considerably brighter, but still falls incredibly short. For half the price tag, three times the range, a cap transfer range bonus, a fraction of the sig radius, and better mobility, you can have two guardians do the exact same thing better.

Then from an exploration perspective, a covert ops frigate does the exact same thing, can cloak, more than quadruple the maneuverability, a smaller destiny sphere(detection purposes), a fraction of a fraction of the price tag, and can fit small rigs which are far cheaper to interchange.

Finally, a T3 hull can do all of the above for half the price and with considerably higher survivability. The Nestor is completely over shadowed and only liked by sentimental bears that don't make any pvp considerations.



I really have nothing new to say on the subject that I haven't stated previously.

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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#48 - 2014-12-01 15:05:09 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Finally, a T3 hull can do all of the above for half the price and with considerably higher survivability. The Nestor is completely over shadowed and only liked by sentimental bears that don't make any pvp considerations.

You miss the point where the T3 hull can rep significantly less and at 1/3 the range making it basically useless (which is why no one uses it). Your comparison falls flat on it's face, I'm afraid. And what "bears" are using it for non-pvp related things? As you've said, for every combat related purpose there is a ship that outstrips it for massively less cost and risk that does the job better. It seems to me that the only people that actually use this ship are likely to be using it in pvp in wormholes, where it was designed to be used.

Kaerakh wrote:
I really have nothing new to say on the subject that I haven't stated previously.

One could question why you posted in that case. Just repeating the same thing over again doesn't alter whether it's true or not. You still seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this ship is meant for wormhole use primarily which, it seems, it's already useful for. If all those other examples are *better* in your opinion, what's the problem? Why don't you just use them rather than try to alter a ship which people actually use just so it fits your personal perspective of what you'd like? That seems somewhat selfish, really.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#49 - 2014-12-01 16:56:45 UTC
Tchulen wrote:

You miss the point where the T3 hull can rep significantly less and at 1/3 the range making it basically useless (which is why no one uses it). Your comparison falls flat on it's face, I'm afraid.


Useless from a blob warrior perspective.

Tchulen wrote:
And what "bears" are using it for non-pvp related things? As you've said, for every combat related purpose there is a ship that outstrips it for massively less cost and risk that does the job better. It seems to me that the only people that actually use this ship are likely to be using it in pvp in wormholes, where it was designed to be used.


As a wormhole player I can safely say that this abomination is useless for the previously stated reasons.

Tchulen wrote:

One could question why you posted in that case. Just repeating the same thing over again doesn't alter whether it's true or not.


Because it's the same discussion again and the position of the Nestor has not altered in current gameplay since those discussions.

Tchulen wrote:
You still seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this ship is meant for wormhole use primarily which, it seems, it's already useful for.


I live in a wormhole, and don't fight in blobs, unlike you.

Tchulen wrote:
If all those other examples are *better* in your opinion, what's the problem? Why don't you just use them rather than try to alter a ship which people actually use just so it fits your personal perspective of what you'd like? That seems somewhat selfish, really.


That probably sounded better in your head.

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Mario Putzo
#50 - 2014-12-01 18:10:17 UTC

I post this in every Nestor thread!

I was thinking it would be interesting if it could bridge, but not actually jump itself (no jump drive) It would have to be bridged itself by another black ops battleship. This may require a reduction in mass to facilitate though (with a respective reduction in baseline HP).

I kinda picture a ship that was respectively battlecruiser size, but required Battleship skills with no combat capability (gives up drone bay for its fuel bay). I was thinking maybe 5-10K more baseline HP than the Guards/Oni's. But retaining the resists.

Something like

Amarr BS bonus 4% to Resists
Gallente bonus 15% to Remote Rep Activation

Role Bonus
300% to Range of Cap Trans and Armor Reps
125% to Speed when using cloaking devices
No targeting delay
60% reduction in Cap Trans activation.

Can fit Black Ops Jump Portal Generators.

Battle Cruiser size, speed, tank. mass (BC size + the reduction SOE get)
Black Ops Cargo/Fuel Bay
* No drone bay, Has no Jump Drive.

100% pure black ops logistics.
Akemon Numon
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-12-01 18:32:35 UTC
Nestor Sucks please fix this mess.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#52 - 2014-12-03 16:01:36 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Useless from a blob warrior perspective.


Nope, from pretty much anyone's perspective.

Kaerakh wrote:
As a wormhole player I can safely say that this abomination is useless for the previously stated reasons.


Other than the fact that there are people using them in WHs.

Kaerakh wrote:
Because it's the same discussion again and the position of the Nestor has not altered in current gameplay since those discussions.


No, you posted the same thing twice in the same thread. That's what I'm questioning.

Kaerakh wrote:
I live in a wormhole, and don't fight in blobs, unlike you.


Unlike this char. I also live in WHs with other characters. Just looking up the char that someone posts on doesn't really give you crap about what that person (person, not character) actually does or understands about EVE.

Kaerakh wrote:
That probably sounded better in your head.


Nope. It's a perfectly decent question which you've failed to answer. Perhaps if you tried to use the ship as it's intended rather than try to bend it to a purpose it isn't you might have more luck with it but then I guess one can say that about pretty much anything in EVE.

Good luck getting it changed. I agree that it's not perfect but I would say the issue here is 50:50; 50% the ship needs some love and 50% you need to learn to think.

Fly stupid ;)
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-12-03 16:12:48 UTC
When will CCP wake up and realize that CCP Rise does a very poor job.

He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake and flipped the ship on its head from what it was before and for no good reason whatsoever.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-12-03 17:25:57 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
When will CCP wake up and realize that CCP Rise does a very poor job.

He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake and flipped the ship on its head from what it was before and for no good reason whatsoever.



Hi Rod!
Neuron Stew
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-12-03 17:27:05 UTC
The problem is battleships in general are lacking.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#56 - 2014-12-03 17:29:12 UTC
Neuron Stew wrote:
The problem is battleships in general are lacking.

This is a big part of the issue. If you feel like helping, I have a thread in my sig I'd love feedback on.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-12-03 18:22:39 UTC
I see the nestor like I view a sports car with a tow hitch on it.

Technically utility was added. Realistically, they missed the mark.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#58 - 2014-12-03 23:25:50 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
I see the nestor like I view a sports car with a tow hitch on it.

Technically utility was added. Realistically, they missed the mark.

I think you are lacking creativity.Blink

How did you Veterans start?
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#59 - 2014-12-04 00:20:25 UTC
The Nestor, living proof that players shouldn't ask CCP to add new ships without specifying a role.

Astero and Stratios are cool. Nestor was a lousy attempt to round out the bunch, since making it cov ops would be hilariously OP.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#60 - 2014-12-04 00:27:58 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
What it really needs is a cap battery strapped in permanently, and a slightly better agility, so that the increased mass of a prop mod doesn't absolutely destroy the things performance.


Give it a hybrid damage bonus instead of the laser range bonus and a bonus for propulsion mods.

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